http://uk.news.yahoo.com/nelson-mandela-dies-president-confirms-214954970.html

Nelsen Mandela has died in Johannesburg aged 95. A great loss to the world.

John.  :'(

As South Africa weeps the loss of Nelson Mandela, it turns out that one of his cleaners was the last to hear him speak.
When interviewed, the reporter asked what his last words were.
Tearfully she said. "Don't unplug that machine , It's keeping me ali......"

::)

Bunter wrote on Dec 6^th, 2013 at 12:07pm:

As South Africa weeps the loss of Nelson Mandela, it turns out that one of his cleaners was the last to hear him speak. When interviewed, the reporter asked what his last words were. Tearfully she said. "Don't unplug that machine , It's keeping me ali......" ::)

This is sick.

A great man he will be missed and not only in his own country

Great men do not deny that they have an AID's epidemic in their country.
Not allowing the distribution of condoms was unforgiveable.
He was a racist just like the whites in South Africa.
He was nothing more than a puppet for the racist ANC.
l for one will certainly not miss him.

wrote on Dec 9^th, 2013 at 2:00pm:

Great men do not deny that they have an AID's epidemic in their country. Not allowing the distribution of condoms was unforgiveable. He was a racist just like the whites in South Africa. He was nothing more than a puppet for the racist ANC. l for one will certainly not miss him.

I agree, besided saving 50 million people from apartheid and leading one of the biggest campains agains AIDS we really must blame him he did not walk on water or changed it into wine.

Shame on him and also on Mahatma Ghandi, the dalai lama and mother Theresa, they where all so busy with their own little projects they forgot to solve all the other problems of the world.

Mark

wonderful,. el alto how you have replied those simple people.
one can always find the little things a person did not do but never talk about the great things the same person did . I always wonder what those people who are so good at critizising ever have done themselves.

"Great men do not deny that they have an AID's epidemic in their country."

Bob with all due respect, you are making a mistake with regards to aids, NM. openly admitted to the aids problem in SA. not only that he called a news conference to announce that his last son had died from aids in order to provide the leadership to others not to deny Aids.

Your right Smidge But it wasn't till his son died that he was dragged to the microphone and admit they had a problem. What about the millions that had died before he acknowledge  his son had AIDs
lf he was a peaceful man. Why was he a co-founder of the MK.
lt took him 27 years to realise what most right minded people think.
From Wikipedia
  Umkhonto we Sizwe (or MK), translated "Spear of the Nation", was the military wing of the ANC. Partly in response to the Sharpeville massacre of 1960, individual members of the ANC found it necessary to consider violence to combat what passive protest had failed to quell. There was a significant portion of the ANC who therefore turned to violence to achieve their goals. A significant portion of ANC leadership agreed that this violence was needed to combat increasing backlash from the government. Some ANC members were upset by the actions of the MK, and refused to accept violence as necessary for the ending of Apartheid, but these individuals became a minority as the militant leaders such as Nelson Mandela gained significant popularity. Many consider their actions to be criminal, but the MK deemed the means justified by the end goal of ending apartheid. The MK committed terrorist acts to achieve their aims, and MK was responsible for the deaths of both civilians and members of the military. Acts of terrorism committed by the MK include the Church Street bombing and the Magoo's Bar bombing. In co-operation with the South African Communist Party, MK was founded in 1961.

He believed in peaceful change no more than Jerry Adams.

!As for myself l have served in Her Majesties forces all over the world and  have been part of peace keeping missions in Aden-Borneo as well as N Ireland. protecting the innocent.

Those without knowledge will seek to personalise there replies

How blessed we are to have such a talent on the Forum....

Here are some TRUE FACTS.

http://thebackbencher.co.uk/3-things-you-didnt-want-to-know-about-nelson-mandela/

Not really sure what your point is, I don't believe anyone has suggested he was a saint. Perhaps just an attempt to deflect from your ill timed joke ?

Bob, AIDS may not have been on his agenda he was banged up at the time this epidemic was starting. However when he did become conscious of it he spoke out against it.
Regarding man of violence/peace I will leave that to others to debate. You have your view and shown evidence here why you have the view. Some of the people with the opposite view can outline similar evidence for their view, some cannot. However the great thing about freedom is that everyone can express their view.

I do not really think that we have to find excuses for Nelson Mandela. he was a human being  and therefore not perfect but to imply that he was other than a peaceful person who wanted a better south africa is a bit shortsighted, as it is to boast of the fact that one fought in N.I. for the innocent
please first look in your own book before critizising enything else'you are right everybody in this free world in entitled to their opinion but always realize it is only an opinion.yours!!

You asked the question Hivi. (I always wonder what those people who are so good at critizising ever have done themselves. ) So l told you. l was not boasting about my time in Nl.
The fact l was there gives me a more balanced view.  After all ones mans Terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
Now l  throw your question  back to you.
Quite agree with you Smidge.  ln a Free world we can all have an opinion. So nice to debate and rise above.

Those without knowledge will seek to personalise there replies. Perhaps you would like a translation Hivi.

"The fact l was there gives me a more balanced view."

Interesting claim.  My friend who served two tours of NI developed quite a squinted view about people who shot at him and killed a comrade.

Pondgirl, "squinted view "Squinted =To look askance, as in disapproval. Normal balanced reaction of any person towards another who has tried to kill him/her would you not agree. ?  I mean if he was full of approval it would be an unbalanced view to have. ?  Bob will be delighted with your supporting post this time :)

No, as in distorted.  I think it would be impossible not to be biased against people that have shot at you, so I don't agree that someone would automatically be balanced in their outlook just because they have served in NI.  I have Irish friends that might disagree for a start.

Squinted as in distorted, have to take your word for that I do not know your friend.
"I don't agree that someone would automatically be balanced in their outlook just because they have served in NI." I fully agree but if you are implying that Bob meant the highlighted in his statement I do not agree . I understand Bob to mean that because he was in NI, he experienced it and as a result has a more balanced view than if he had not experienced it.

Thank you Smidge. l could not have put it better.
Which part do your Irish friends not agree with Pondgirl
l have a colleague who is still working in Stormont and  is shaking hands with the very people we exchanging bullets with.
Didn't take me 27 years to realise the Pen is mightier than the Sword.

wrote on Dec 15^th, 2013 at 8:40pm:

Squinted as in distorted, have to take your word for that I do not know your friend. "I don't agree that someone would automatically be balanced in their outlook just because they have served in NI." I fully agree but if you are implying that Bob meant the highlighted in his statement I do not agree . I understand Bob to mean that because he was in NI, he experienced it and as a result has a more balanced view than if he had not experienced it.

I believe that because he experienced it he has a more informed view but I can't agree that his view is necessarily more balanced, it's just as likely that his experienced could make him biased.  I'm mean, I'll take his word for it, being Christmas and all, but it isn't a given.

Fair enough Pondgirl. It works both ways, because your friend had a particular view due to his experiences in NI it is not a "given" that others who were there have a similar view.
Anyway, Happy Christmas! to you and Bob.  :)

Dear skibob/Pondgirl and Smidge,
WHO shot Nelson and which country was he shot in, N.I. or S.Africa if N.I. why was he there anyway at 95 years old and if you Pondgirl are correct it appears to be skibob who carried out this act. Skibob why did you shoot a 95 year old black man just for visiting N.I. I must admit that while I was there I did not enjoy it but did show some self control and didn't shoot oaps just for visiting and Smidge why are you doing an undercover advert for Specsavers and who has the dodgy eyes and squints?
Merry Christmas to you all from a somewhat concerned Bulldog.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   

Excellent Bulldog, beautifully rounded up, perhaps that will be the end of the tread.............although I somehow doubt it.

TREAD carefully!

munkonminor wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 9:57pm:

Excellent Bulldog, beautifully rounded up, perhaps that will be the end of the tread.............although I somehow doubt it.

Munk,
Do I detect a slight Irish accent here?    ;)

It's a good job I'm dyslexic,I thought something  had happened to the local Nissan main dealer