Hi All.

its been a while since i've been on, settling into life in Barcelona, drinking too much and sweating like a trooper in this horrendous humidity.

My wife and i have been travelling up and down to Tortosa and surrounding areas for the past few weeks and would like to buy something down there for weekends/holidays etc. Ideally w would like to buy a plot for renovation away from a town with a bit of land. Can anybody who has had experience of the planning regulations post their experiences here. Can you build on ruins, and do they have to stay the same size etc.

Also does anybody know the rules for log homes?

Thanks

Planning permission varies, as far as I know a lot is to do with the local mayor and how much he is willing to overlook/take as a backhander. This means things vary wildly from area to area. To do things the *proper* way can take several years and you need, for example, proper architects drawings. Catalonia is a bit harder/stricter on all this than the rest of Spain.

In the National Park you are very tightly restricted and will be hung,drawn & quartered for any illegal building etc.

Log homes DO need Planning Permission, people who sell them or plots without buildings may tell you different . . . . .


^ All of the above is just what I have heard, dont take it as gospel, the best advice I can give is get yourself a very good Estate Agent and Solicitor. From what I know, the proper Estate Agents are in the API - a professional trade body.

That is good advice and just to be perfectly clear take someone who can speak Catalan (preferably someone who is indepent from your estate agent and/or solicitor) and arrange a meeting with the local architect at the ajuntament,then you will find out exactly what you can and can't do.We actually did this just after we had bought about 18 mths ago and since then we have heard all sorts of variations,some bordering on the ridiculous.We are now having plans drawn up and submitted along the lines of our original meeting at the ajuntament.Some villages have different criteria with regards to planning and building so it is worth a brief chat.

Thanks for the advice guys,

nobrot....so you decided to buy before you actually knew what the permission was? We are worried that we would buy something that could never be built on and will be left with a lame duck!!

I've sent you a PM

Can anybody give us a ballpark figure as to what pre-purchase legal costs might be? For example if we wanted to arrange for a lawyer to look into a specific property, find out its options for renovation, and other legal bits, how much might we expect to be charged, and how long might it take?

Hi spawny,

This is such a huge and open ended subject and will obviously depend enormously on what work is needed.  If it helps this is a quote from our solicitor:

"Our services consist of helping you get along with all the legal and paper work involved in the conveyance process.

We'll study the situation of the property before being purchased, we'll draft or look after the deposit contract, attend to the Notary on the signing day as well as deal with all the payments involved in the process such as Notary, Taxes and Land Registry.

For our services we have a flat fee of 1.500 euros plus VAT (16%)"

As for how long it takes...........we paid our deposit in January and we are still waiting for full and final approval even though the local authorities  gave the go ahead months ago.  This is mainly due to the fact that we are buying a building considered to be of 'significant historical interest' located on the edge of the national park and it appears that everyone and their mother from Tarragona to Barcelona has to look at the plans!  Plus it's now August and the Spanish rubber stamps apparently melt in the heat, so we have to wait 'til September!

On the plus side, our solicitor and estate agents have been totally upfront during the proceedings and have explained exactly what we can and cannot do and that includes not paying the balance of purchase price until all planning has been approved, however much we may be champing at the bit to get stuck in!

Our experience is that you should only consider buying a property that is already big enough for your needs as the authorities very rarely grant permission to build outside of the original footprint.

Your best bet is to contact a reputable solicitor (I can pm you the name and details of ours if you're interested) and ask them these questions yourselves.

Hope this helps.

Penny

Hi Penny,
Could you send me the details of your lawyer, that is if he speaks English. I have a client in the Phillipines who wants to buy a property without even coming to see it, and he wants to do everything via a Lawyer.

Regards

Jools

Hi Penny,

i sent you a message but i don't think you got it, could you send us his details too please.

Rich

Hi Guys,

Sorry I haven't replied, I haven't been on-line on 'my' computer for a few days.

I'll PM you both later with details (not to hand at the moment) and a caveat!.

Penny

Hello

1. there must be an existing residential structure on the land (condition relatively unimportant)
2. however the larger the property, the better
3. minimum of 5 hectares of productive land (i.e. agricultural land)
4. you will need an architect
5. highly advantageous to the planning process to register as a farmer( can only be done once you bought the agricultural land)
6. as part of the process you need to be registered at your local Town Hall. This in addition to the usual NIE registration
7. the first job that your architect needs to do prior to any drawings/submission of plans etc., is to register the property/finca as a residence
8. we have gone through this process and it would have taken us (hopefully) 18 months to secure the building licence
9. be extremely / excessively cautious to the point of mania with regards to what estate agents or other property professionals tell you, as planning permission on rural land is becoming increasingly difficult to obtain and most of the above conditions / requirements have to be met as criteria for the building licence
10. It is unfortunate that you will be told that everybody puts up an almacen/barn which you can then live in. Whilst a number of people have gone this route it is fraught with problems and we would strongly urge that you proceed with utmost caution and seek independent planning and legal advice (architect and independent solicitor).

Kind regards and best of luck
Gary & Sabine

Hi Penny,
Do you have the number of your Lawyer in Spain, please, please, please, urgently required!

Jools