Like a lot of other foreigners, we also have fallen in love with the Terra Alta!
It is an exceptional place, a landscape of rare beauty with mountains and hills full of wildlife and flora that surprise every season! It's in marvelous balance with fincas cultivated for many generations (how beautiful it is when the almond trees are in bloom!), and all this without polluting industry!
Sparsely populated it gives you the calm to really distress. These are the places that we must preserve to the maximum if we can, there are so few left in the world!
Renewable energy is a good cause, but the concentration of wind farms planned in Terra Alta is a disgrace!
They are designed without any respect  for the villages nor for the nature and local heritage.  High voltage powerlines,(with their fire corridors) are wasting the countryside (as they waste the seacoast  already, for that matter).
BERTA the electricity company has recently made a request to get permission for several wind parks around Prat de Comte, people who are affected directly (for pylons will be on their farm) sent in petitions in cooperation with the Association of Defense de la Terra Alta; we must help them, because a lot of signatures are needed to impress the authorities.
Please print, sign and send the petition (written by local people) for the love of Terra Alta! Only in quantities can we win, if we are too few, nobody is going to listen!
May 4 being the deadline, there is only this week left to act!!! (the postal date is decisive).
Send an e-mail to : [email][/email]iris.cobben@orange.fr and I will send you the petition on the double!
Moltes gràcies! Iris.
 

Hello Iris Its sounds to me likeyou area NIMBY, Not in my back yard!! we all want electricity and are quite happy to accept the supply as long as we don't have a nuclear or gas powered station in our area, and now we are getting even pickeir about it, we now don't want to see a Wind generator or a solar farm or dam a river for hydro electric, Well Bollxxcks if you want electric it has to be generated and if you want to live without electric then that fine but accept the fact if you want electric then take the consequenses don't start bleeting about windmills gas power stations nuclear hydro just beggar off and live in hippy land and light your life with candles.

If you really are what you profess to be then I admire your frugality but don't think for one minute that generating your own electricity is eco!!  batteries pollute the environment at both ends production and recycling, the efficiency of a small wind turbine is pathetic and the noise from one is also a pollutant solar panels use silicon and arsenides which also pollute the environment, so you can't win accept  the enevitable and rely on major power suppliers to provide electric anything else is futile and more polluting
G.O.M.

wrote on Apr 25^th, 2009 at 4:46pm:

Like a lot of other foreigners, we also have fallen in love with the Terra Alta! It is an exceptional place, a landscape of rare beauty with mountains and hills full of wildlife and flora that surprise every season! It's in marvelous balance with fincas cultivated for many generations (how beautiful it is when the almond trees are in bloom!), and all this without polluting industry! Sparsely populated it gives you the calm to really distress. These are the places that we must preserve to the maximum if we can, there are so few left in the world! Renewable energy is a good cause, but the concentration of wind farms planned in Terra Alta is a disgrace! They are designed without any respect  for the villages nor for the nature and local heritage.  High voltage powerlines,(with their fire corridors) are wasting the countryside (as they waste the seacoast  already, for that matter). BERTA the electricity company has recently made a request to get permission for several wind parks around Prat de Comte, people who are affected directly (for pylons will be on their farm) sent in petitions in cooperation with the Association of Defense de la Terra Alta; we must help them, because a lot of signatures are needed to impress the authorities. Please print, sign and send the petition (written by local people) for the love of Terra Alta! Only in quantities can we win, if we are too few, nobody is going to listen! May 4 being the deadline, there is only this week left to act!!! (the postal date is decisive). Send an e-mail to : [email][/email]iris.cobben@orange.fr and I will send you the petition on the double! Moltes gràcies! Iris. Move to another area if you don't like it!! I will not sign the petition!! Windmills and Hydo power are the solution as far as I am concerned for the future you just don't want any power lines or windmills near you land, but I still bet you want elactricity!!

mister hazelnut,

I am certainly in favor of renewable energy, but do you realize how many lies there are published about windenergy?
I am not a technician but if you read what is published on, for exemple : http://www.wind-energie-halkema.org/vijf2.html ,or if you prefer spanish : http://www.energia-eolica-toda-la-verdad.com/  ,I wonder if you will still be fulminating against me.
apart from a lot of risky technical disadvantages, the main thing is, that more conventional powerstations are needed to compensate the fluctuations in energyproduction by windmills.
these fluctuations occur all the time and are obvious because the wind doesn't always blow as we all know.
in germany they are busy building carbonfuelled powerstations together with windmillparks, in Ascot a thermal station is planned for the same reason.
with all the extra CO2 that produces, there is only more pollution created!
but people are not informed about this, because there is too much money involved, too much profit to make!

Windmills

Personally I like the look of them they look better than miles of electricity pylons striding over the countryside and causing leukemia due to there very high voltage lines

Give me Windmills and solar farms any day!!

May be they can build a nice Carbon fueled power station near to where you live in Terra Alta and festoon pylons all over the horizon!!

NIMBYS what can I say!

you are too generous, but not very well informed.
windmills come with very high voltage lines causing leukemia and the rest!
unlike in other countries, in Spain they never take the trouble to put them in the ground; they use sometimes wooden poles to support the lines and they cause many a forestfire.

wrote on Apr 26^th, 2009 at 12:36pm:

you are too generous, but not very well informed. windmills come with very high voltage lines causing leukemia and the rest! unlike in other countries, in Spain they never take the trouble to put them in the ground; they use sometimes wooden poles to support the lines and they cause many a forestfire.

well iris if you dont like what is done in spain then go back were you came from,to many people come too spain and then think they can tell the spaniards what they can and cannot do ::) i dont think so :-?

wrote on Apr 26^th, 2009 at 12:36pm:

you are too generous, but not very well informed. windmills come with very high voltage lines causing leukemia and the rest! unlike in other countries, in Spain they never take the trouble to put them in the ground; they use sometimes wooden poles to support the lines and they cause many a forestfire.

I am informed enough to know that Windmills and solar farms are only used for supplying local towns and villages, and the power lines are rated at 10,000 or 25,000 volts so therefore the pylons only travel short distances and do not need to be the very high voltages 100.000 volts  needed to travel  long distances like gas and nuclear and Carbon power stations

Also the Spanish system uses concrete footings and concrete pylons which are put very securely into the ground, the wooden poles you mentioned are only used for 1000 volt lines and now are only found in remote areas where modernisation has not taken place, Probably Like Terra Alta and remote areas of Rural France

Join the 21st century and embrace technology like the rest of us!!

for your information : the powerline coming from these windmills carries 132.000 volt (Diari Oficial de la Generalitat de Catalunya num.5340-17/3/2009).

And How far will the pylons go?

Which villages will benefit from the new electricty supply?

How many Fincas will have power lines across them compared to the hundreds of people that will benefit from the electricity?

Most villagers don't even live on their fincas only visiting them to prune trees

Could it be that the pylons are destined to go over your land?

do have a look at : http://www.wind-energie-halkema.org/vijf2.html , it can be read in english aswell.
I am sure you will understand better what I am trying to say.
My participation in this forum will end here. I wish you good health and a happy life with lots of friendly friends!
And........enjoy your last word (which I am sure you can't resist!).

Hi Iris,

Without judging about who's right or wrong I hope you realise this engineer Halkema you are referring to is writing about the Dutch situation in 2002. He also thought at that time it was better to keep a Dutch nuclear power central open, instead of closing it and build windmills. Somehowe I don't think the people near Asco agrees with this ;-)

I'm not convinced the explosive grow of windmills in the Terra Alta is the right direction, but I know for sure some of the solutions they are using at the moment (generators and nuclear power) aren't. I also think even the Catalans are entitled to make their own misstakes ;-) In the worst case scenario they find out the windmills are not deliver enough energy and then breake them down again or replace them with better ones in 20 years or so.

Mark

wrote on Apr 26^th, 2009 at 10:14pm:

do have a look at : http://www.wind-energie-halkema.org/vijf2.html , it can be read in english aswell. I am sure you will understand better what I am trying to say. My participation in this forum will end here. I wish you good health and a happy life with lots of friendly friends! And........enjoy your last word (which I am sure you can't resist!).

Don't throw your toys out of the pram on my account, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and should stick to your guns no matter what a grumpy old geezzer like me says

You live in the Terra Alta Region I presume and therefore you should stick up for what you believe in, for your area don't take any notice of me as I don't live in your area, I live in the tortosa area and am quite happy with a huge solar farm nearby and the view of the windmills on the mountains and we have a set of pylons running through part of our land

Don't leave the Forum on My account!! :( :'(

Hello Iris,
Allthough I don't agree with all your views, as no matter what type of power generation is used it will affect/offend someone, the majority of people use electricity.
It's good to hear your views and surely that is part of what the forum is about, discussing various subjects.
I hope you will continue to contribute to the forum, as it has helped to liven things up and is a subject that neads to be discussed in depth ?     :-/

I to will add my voice to those saying don't leave the forum over a difference of opinion. Some people take this site very seriously and some are having fun(whilst offering and receiving advice). I never post to offend,for example, and usually have my tongue firmly in my cheek unless giving out advice. And I know that many others do too. Society is made up of many views and opinions and will sometimes clash but bear in mind there are many also reading the posts and not commenting. Don't take comments too personally.
Bruixot

Iris
When you first posted your request that we oppose to the wind farm I chose not to do so for various reasons, the main being we do not live in Spain (so I feel it is not my place to do anything) but we are very frequent visitors to this region but also on turning up to our little casita I do appreciate that fact that I can turn on the lights, make myself a cuppa etc without having to try and provide my own power supply so I welcome the windfarms plus when I look out towards Tortosa I marvel at the sight of all the turbines.
But these are my personal opinions and there will be many that oppose them and some that may agree but we need all opinions to make it a interesting forum so please do not leave the forum because of the negative replies that you feel you have received.
Debbie  

Thanks Debbie

I didn't think I was being to harsh!! but then I am a grumpy old git well at least according to Hazel

I was only stating my own personal opinions to which everyone is allowed :-X Aren't they

I was surprised that Iris got so upset about someone disagreeing with her/his point of view

Did they expect everyone to agree with them ?

Some people come to Spain as a do a lot of Townies moving to the countryside! they  buy a property then find out that Rural life though initially idillic, turns somewhat sour, they then find out that their neighbours dump Pig and Chicken manure on their land at regular intervals causing some awfull stinks, the hunters are allowed to roam and shoot at will or robin or jack sparrow, they are woken by the local Cockrel who doesn't stop at 6:00am but carries on till 11;00am, the chain saws and Olive sprayers also start early in the morning hunting dogs roam free after their hunters have lost them and terrorise your cats, the flies come with regular predictability around May Time and stick around till the swallows go back to Africa, the church bells chime on every quarter hour 24/7 and they want to change things!!

But if you move onto the Campo that is what you should Accept its no point trying to change things!! you are the outsider!!

The Locals who have previously been denied electricity or are on a very low wattage suddenly come into the 21st century and are offered light and power even in remote areas

My point was that there will be a few objectors to the wind farms usually people who have a pylon on their land or the windmill itself or end up with a new view of elecricity pylons!! but the majority benefit

So in theory if people sign a petition against the windfarms they should in now way be more representative than the people that benefit from the electricty!!

That is apart from the townies that don't want the windmills or the pylons spoiling thier view

I think its called progress!!

Anyway its no point throwing your toys out of the pram Just because someone disagrees with your point of view

G.O.M.

wrote on Apr 29^th, 2009 at 9:26pm:

Thanks Debbie I didn't think I was being to harsh!! but then I am a grumpy old git well at least according to Hazel I was only stating my own personal opinions to which everyone is allowed :-X Aren't they I was surprised that Iris got so upset about someone disagreeing with her/his point of view Did they expect everyone to agree with them ? Some people come to Spain as a do a lot of Townies moving to the countryside! they  buy a property then find out that Rural life though initially idillic, turns somewhat sour, they then find out that their neighbours dump Pig and Chicken manure on their land at regular intervals causing some awfull stinks, the hunters are allowed to roam and shoot at will or robin or jack sparrow, they are woken by the local Cockrel who doesn't stop at 6:00am but carries on till 11;00am, the chain saws and Olive sprayers also start early in the morning hunting dogs roam free after their hunters have lost them and terrorise your cats, the flies come with regular predictability around May Time and stick around till the swallows go back to Africa, the church bells chime on every quarter hour 24/7 and they want to change things!! But if you move onto the Campo that is what you should Accept its no point trying to change things!! you are the outsider!! The Locals who have previously been denied electricity or are on a very low wattage suddenly come into the 21st century and are offered light and power even in remote areas My point was that there will be a few objectors to the wind farms usually people who have a pylon on their land or the windmill itself or end up with a new view of elecricity pylons!! but the majority benefit So in theory if people sign a petition against the windfarms they should in now way be more representative than the people that benefit from the electricty!! That is apart from the townies that don't want the windmills or the pylons spoiling thier view I think its called progress!! Anyway its no point throwing your toys out of the pram Just because someone disagrees with your point of view G.O.M.

well said hazelnut  :)

wrote on Apr 29^th, 2009 at 9:26pm:

Thanks Debbie I was only stating my own personal opinions to which everyone is allowed :-X Aren't they G.O.M.

Not if you're a moderator !!

I disagree Tony!

Moderators are just as entitled to their opinions as everyone else!!

Unless they break these rules :-

Nigel

You agree, through your use of 'The Tortosa Forum', that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy

I only just noticed this topic and was wondering how the wind farm is progressing and what area it will eventually cover?

I agree this is an important topic to raise, whatever your views. Did Iris re-join the forum? I hope so, he/she seemed quite hurt by some of the comments.