Spain is sliding into a full-blown economic depression with unemployment approaching levels not seen since the Second Republic of the 1930s and little chance of recovery until well into the next decade, according to a clutch of reports over recent days.

Full article from the Telegraph here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6228390/Spain-tips-into-depression.html

Well they might get themselves out of a depression a bit quicker if they reduced all their stupid quadruplicate paperwork and beurocracy, it just slows everything down, and makes most people give up in dispair!!

The Telegraph is always down on Spain. I remember an article saying what a state Spain was in compared to the rest of the EU and the western world shortly before the crisis showed up what a state the rest were in themselves.
Bruixot

Precisely Bruixot, why read reports from a british newspaper on Spain reading the spanish financials would seem to make more sense

Apart from the fact that it is the Spanish Press, and they probably don't want the rest of the world know the country is in trouble, I think its called propaganda

Its a bit like asking Gordon Brown if everything is honky dory in the UK, would you expect him to say no we are in deep doodoo

Re the Depression They might start the housing market by allowing death duty to be paid on property after it is sold rather than before (as in every other civilised country in europe), that way thousands of properties stuck in no mans land where the inheritors of a will cannot afford the death duties could sell the property then pay whats owing to the government.

Seems sensible to me, ever wondered why there are so many derelict properties in Catalunya and Spain?

The real reason for the glut of derelict properties in Spain must surely boil down to a mass exodus away from the country into the cities for better paid jobs.I've just spent 2 hours grovelling around on all fours whilst locked in combat with vindictive carob trees,pulling splinters out and defending myself from dogs,all for what.......€2.50 hour after bags and fuel to the mill.Now even the Moroccans would find that funny.

Hi Notrob

When our neighbours first came here about 6 years ago it was 0.50 a kg for carobs, last year 0.28 a kg
now its 0.18 / kg and they are finding more uses for the pods and seeds every year, and if as you say more and more people are leaving the land, so one presumes the harvesting isn't being done as much anymore, so why isn't there a shortage of carobs and a price increase? ::) ::)

Someone in the middle is making a killing as usual!! >:( >:(

Its a shame the farmers can't unite and stop taking in their carobs untill a sensible price is offered!! :'(

At the prices this year I am thinking of burning mine as heating fuel

Anyway next years harvest will be seriously depleted at our place as I am chopping down most of the bigger carob trees for firewood, it makes more sense!!

Tim

wrote on Sep 27^th, 2009 at 8:36am:

Its a shame the farmers can't unite and stop taking in their carobs untill a sensible price is offered!! :'( At the prices this year I am thinking of burning mine as heating fuel Anyway next years harvest will be seriously depleted at our place as I am chopping down most of the bigger carob trees for firewood, it makes more sense!!

Hi Tim, I thought that's what the Cooperatives were all about, i.e. a united front for the growers (of whatever).  So how does that work then. ?  Your theory of supply and demand would indeed suggest the prices should be holding.  However, I gather that last year's low olive prices was due to gluts elswhere in Spain.
Unfortunately, I only have one Carob tree and it hasn't fruited the last two years.  I wish I had a lot more as the firewood is good stuff.  Shame they're so slow growing.

Quite agree with both of you,it just doesn't 'seem' to make sense,but then I'm not a real farmer.....I was talking to someone last night and they reckon the prices for carob and olives etc are low because there was glut last year.
Stu,don't burn them,keep them dry till next year when the rains will come,it will definately be a record harvest,prices will soar and I'll get my Aston.
Failing that I'm going to grow peanuts.Or something.

P.S. Just a thought....are there enough of us out there to start our own cooperative ???? anyone interested??

wrote on Sep 27^th, 2009 at 10:50am:

P.S. Just a thought....are there enough of us out there to start our own cooperative ???? anyone interested??

It's an attractive thought on the surface but whether it would fly or not is another matter.  "are there enough of us out there ?".  I don't know if Nigel has a handle on how many of the members live close enough to Tortosa (in any direction) to make it viable and how many of those live on campo and produce crops (olive, citrus, carob etc.)
I assume you perceive the advantages as being increased buying power and sharing equipment etc.  One small/medium tractor with all the implements (including backhoe) would probably be more than adequate.  One big sprayer, one small (100L) would probably cover all requirements.  Maybe two or three trailers of various sizes.  Smaller stuff such as chainsaws probably wouldn't be worth throwing into the mix.  I wouldn't mind betting that a lot of the local farmers/finca'ers have similar arrangements.  It's hard to see how each guy with one field of crops could justify the outlay on such kit for the amount of annual use it gets.
Another advantage would be the sharing of knowledge and experience.
Possible difficulties.  I've had experience of trying to organise expats into a cohesive mass.  At the time of running a poll to guage commitment, there will usually be a big majority of "yes" votes.  At the time of calling on that commitment, it will usually evaporate at the same speed as gin thrown on a BBQ.  There would also have to be a set of strict, enforcable rules to govern use of shared resources and from what I've seen on this forum, matters of discipline  :-[  There seem to be more than enough squabbles on here which if translated into a physical entity could prove to be diasasterous.
For what it's worth,
Bigyin

Yes,that's understandable but if there are enough seriously minded people to start the ball rolling and some kind of entry fee just to sharpen that commitment,who knows....
I was thinking more along the lines  increased selling power perhaps.Equipment sharing could prove slightly more difficult.
20 individuals each taking 1 ton of carobs will get the going rate and will be at the mercy of the mill owner,they after all are a business not a charity.However a far better price could be negotiated for 1 load of 20 tonnes either to a mill or direct to the end user.

Nobrot my neighbour salvador took 17 tonnes of carobs this year and still only got 20 cents/kilo and he is a hard-nosed guy who knows how to make money, so i think the price is 20 cents regardless of quantity.

Bigyin all the argumentative folks seem to live way upriver from Tortosa, (I think its something to do with the power station, makes 'em grumpy)  ;)

wrote on Sep 27^th, 2009 at 1:19pm:

Yes,that's understandable but if there are enough seriously minded people to start the ball rolling and some kind of entry fee just to sharpen that commitment,who knows.... I was thinking more along the lines  increased selling power perhaps.Equipment sharing could prove slightly more difficult. 20 individuals each taking 1 ton of carobs will get the going rate and will be at the mercy of the mill owner,they after all are a business not a charity.However a far better price could be negotiated for 1 load of 20 tonnes either to a mill or direct to the end user.

Looks like cactus jack has more or less answered that one.  The buying power point was based on the complaints I've seen on here about prices for timber etc.  What items do we probably all buy ?  Blocks, aggregates, timber, chemicals, irrigation materials etc. where I think perhaps better prices could be negotiated.  having said that, a lot of it is having inside info as to where the locals would go to buy their stuff.  I have a couple of good sources for irrigation, chemicals and blocks.  Still looking for reasonable timber (that isn't 100 mile round trip away).

wrote on Sep 27^th, 2009 at 1:40pm:

Bigyin all the argumentative folks seem to live way upriver from Tortosa, (I think its something to do with the power station, makes 'em grumpy)  ;)

It would be good to see a map showing where we all are (unless security was a concern).  I'm south of Tortosa so I don't think the fallout drifts this far.  I don't know about grumpy.....it seems to make Tim very variable  ;D

I  Have changed my mind, I am not burning them anymore, I just found out from my sister in London that the Veggie and Hippie brigade use carobs as chews and pay 5 quid a kilo, guess what my car will be full of when we go back to the UK

Bigyin wrote on Sep 27^th, 2009 at 12:02pm:

[quote author=Nobrot link=1253862465/0#8 date=1254041446] P.S. Just a thought....are there enough of us out there to start our own cooperative ???? anyone interested??

It's an attractive thought on the surface but whether it would fly or not is another matter.  "are there enough of us out there ?".  I don't know if Nigel has a handle on how many of the members live close enough to Tortosa (in any direction) to make it viable and how many of those live on campo and produce crops (olive, citrus, carob etc.)
into the mix.  

Helloo get real do you think you could start any british run anything in Catalunya, it would take 3 years for the paperwork to go through, you would have to jump through Hoops and hurdles at every turn, and they would find a different reason every month that you must comply with to obtain your license, non of which the locals would have to adhere to

Waste of time Protectionism Rules in Catalunya

*****y hell Tim.  You entrepreneur you.  So you gonna trade in the X-Trail for a Roller while you're over there.  I wonder if they're hallucinogenic ?  You could grind them and sell the powder for even more.  By the way, what is Spanish Fly made of ? 8-)

Think it would have to be a privately run affair.  (You ain't seen me right !!).  I doubt if anyone was suggesting we have a proper job with a Moli 'dOli and all.

I reckon all the local farmers are getting subsidies for their crops, there is no way they are making carobs and olive crops pay at the prices we see.
The trouble with machinery sharing is who uses what, and who's do you use and who carries/trailers big stuff around, and i'll bet every time your piece of kit comes back to you, it's knackered and wants repairing before you can use it yourself! Local farmers all own their own kit too, again, probably subsidised.
Re carobs, i had 84 sacks last year ( and earned about 500 euro's) this year i have got 24 sacks. Probably lucky to get 100 euro's this time. >:(

Tim,Whilst you're over there,check out the pet shops.They are shrink wrapped for doggy chews.
Having said that,last year I put a sack full through our chipper and mixed it in with the dry dog food,keeps 'em nice and regular you know...

carobs are sold as horse treats, BIG money in uk