This may be of  interest to anyone fishing the Ebro and maybe the kiss of death to the guides who are scratching a living here. The Catalan authorities have had a pilot scheme running over a 2 week period with the intention of eradicating the Wels catfish ( Silur ) and other fish - Zander , Pike and american bass.
The area so far covered the lower reaches and led to the killing of 327 fish including 74 catfish. It seems the outcome will be a full scale elimination project of these species. Anyone with a better understanding than myself of Catalan/Spanish would be better informed by reading the article in DIARI EBRE local newspaper of 24th October. If anyone has any further information could they post it on this forum please ?

It all seems a very blinkered approach to a problem that doesn't really exist.If the powers that be put more thought and effort into promoting the river rather than demoting it the whole area would benefit.
Each fisherman,coming into the area to pleasure fish spends about £700 a week in total doing so.That could be a lot more money into the local economy if it was promoted/marketed and managed properly.
What use is 'killing' 327 fish.( I saw the ba$tards with the spear guns) They would do better poisoning every living creature in the river system and then re introducing the original native inhabitants,which have been poisoned by chemical and fertilizer run off,spillages from the power station and raw sewerage anyway.

Trying to wipe out a species ( wels catfish ) will not work but will balls up the fishing and ruin the economy of a lot of small business built round the fishing for years. The Americans have spent billions of dollars trying to wipe out the migration of Bighead ,Asian and Silver carp from getting to the Great Lakes from the Mississipi river system and are failing badly. Physical and electric barriers,netting , poisons, you name it. All have failed. The water companies in the UK tried to eradicate Zander years ago and also failed .The return of the native Barbel and other species would only be temporary as the Catfish and others at the top of the food chain are sure to return in the future.
To add insult to injury I am told the fish that are slaughtered are being frozen and sent to Romania as food . Not entirely wasted but a few euros in someones back  pocket.
 Why dont they just try and control the numbers ie put the big ones back ( the large ones dont taste nice at all so I'm told) and market the smaller ones.

Never mind the futile attempts to control Wels Catfish, big tough guys spearing the monsters that bring in tourist money, how will they ever get all the tiddlers ? ... they wont and cant.

It may well however, prove to be a far more effective method of controlling Romanians, only a suicidal cretin would eat a top level predator from that river... Someone I  know swears you can see Mercury in the guts of the Lubina - Sea Bass they catch in the river, there is a Battery factory around Flix/Asco, near the leaky Power Nuclear Station that gets blamed for that.


Maybe it is not such a bad idea after all ?

Just recieved this email from a local fishing guide and have asked their permission to put it on here.I cant comment on how accurate it is so....dont shoot the messanger.


Hi everyone
can i ask you a great favour, we have heard that the Generallitat of
Catalunya has EU backing to cull catfish and carp from the whole
lenght of the lower ebro right upto the border with spain in the
province of Aragon this is being done because they are not native
species to the ebro river, the carp were introduced approx 2000 years
ago by the Romans and the catfish in 1973 by Germans, the Generallitat
have just run a pilot scheme on the lower ebro where 73 catfish were
caught or speargunned by Romanians that are employed by the
generallitat to carry out the cull, they are now going to start
netting the river useing large cone nets and all catfish and carp
caught will be frozen and sent to Romania for food as part payment for
the cull, many people i have spoken to think this is an ill conceived
plan with many flaws which i will list below.
1 who will police the Romanians to see that they are not taking fish
that are native to the river.
2 fish that are caught in the nets that are native to the river will
probably suffer injury by having their heads/gills caught in the nets
or be crushed by larger fish.
3 what will happen when someone is injured or dies as a result of
running a boat into one of these nets which someone nearly did at the
3k mark a few weeks ago where she ended up cutting a strong cord
holding a net this was done to stop a serious accident happening with
another boat in low light conditions.
4 if the catfish are culled in large numbers this will result
eventually in a huge drop in fishermen coming to Catalunia that will
instead go into Spain where they are not affected by this  proposed
large scale cull this will result in a dramatice drop in fishing
licence revenue and also tourism.
5 there have been no proposals put forward by the generallitat as to
what plans they have to re-populate the river with native species
which would take years and years to end up with a river that is
prolific as it is now and would fishermen come back to the river
probably no as the main target species fo anglers from the UK is the
catfish and then carp.

Can i ask you all to send an email to the following wesite of the
generallitat of catalunya which is  gencat.cat/index_eng.htm then go
into contact at top of the page then into contact us then go into the
drop down menu to subject agriculture. cattle raising, fishing and
then type in your disapproval listing some of your complaints if
enough people complain perhaps they may take notice if you can forward
this email to your friends who will also complain this will help
enormously
kindest regards

wrote on Nov 12^th, 2009 at 9:31am:

If the Carp have been here for 2000 years and still not considered to be native, it doesn't hold out much hope for foreigners being accepted into the community does it!!

Are hazelnuts indigenous to Spain? ;D

wrote on Nov 12^th, 2009 at 11:45am:

wrote on Nov 12th, 2009 at 9:31am: If the Carp have been here for 2000 years and still not considered to be native, it doesn't hold out much hope for foreigners being accepted into the community does it!! Are hazelnuts indigenous to Spain? ;D

Not for much longer If I have got anything to do with it!!

All the crappy old Carobs are being masacred too this year, as they are worth more as firewood than for a crop thanks to the cheap morrocan carobs

Mainly British German and Dutch guides so the people who stand to gain most from this EEC funded unworkable waste of money are those ( Romanian ) that have put the least financially into EEC.
Now where have I heard that before ?

See the link where the Catalan government are trying to redress a 30% drop in tourism to the Catalunya area with a europe wide promotional exercise http://www.gencat.cat/turistex_nou/Premsa/Angl/NP_CAMPANYA_INTERNACIONAL_ang.pdf

Spending a total of 1.3,000,000 euros to promote tourism to the area with mentions of Golf and Gastronomy, but alas no mention of sports and fishing so I think they are missing a trick but then thats nothing new is it!!

Whats up with fishing? is it too working class for the Barcelonians? or is it that they don't have a decent river themselves

Cooking the goose that layed the golden egg!!
Closing the gate after the horse has bolted!!
Cutting ones nose off to spite ones face come to mind

But are they aware that they have tried similar fish culling exercises in the USA spending 50,000,000 dollars and at the end of the day having no success at all

Reminds me of a quote from the film Jurasic Park!! Life will find a way

And in a final note they are trying to promote autumn and winter tourism to the area outiside the summer season
Is it me or is the best fishing about this time of the year?

They have a much better method of catfish culling in the Deep Southern States of the good old USA looks more fun than a net or siting for hours in a boat waiting for a bite!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOjA8Puh1BM

Also keeps the teens of the streets double bonus!!

Also a good contender for mud wrestling

After a recent trip to the Aragon area of the Ebro there is no possibility of the authorities there following Catalunya's lead in trying to eliminate certain species of fish. In fact they are promoting the area for fishing and tourism and are quite happy to welcome the trade that our area will lose. They issued nearly 70,000 licences this year and are confident of reaching 100,000 next year, a vast number if these are for visiting anglers and families. How many millions of tourist euros will now be spent in Aragon and not Catalunya is anyones guess. As their GREEN argument for the slaughter is no longer valid ( natural fish migration ) the only reason must be a nice earner for a very few people. What a waste .On the subject of waste I would like to draw attention to the fact that the fish mentioned contain alarming quantities of mercury and should not be going back in the food chain . It seems that Catalunya are happy enough for this to happen as some of these these fish will end up back in the food chain one way or another. There is also the problem of the 700,000 tonnes of toxic mud in our area of the Ebro that has not been dealt with. If you put "TOXIC CATFISH"  into your search engine you will see how serious this is --- look for the "nowpublic" article !

Can you tell me which website this is on as I have put in "TOXIC CATFISH" into Google, Yahoo and Msn and all it led me to on one site was a Carp catchers Forum, was this right???

                                          Old Nelson.

Or go onto WWW nowpublic website and search for toxic catfish !!
google search .....its about the 4th one down if you search toxic catfish----no problem to find !
If anyone hasn't got a clue what this is about -------go back a page on this forum.

Geandi,
         thanks for PM,got onto the site and read the article, the main thing I would like to know is how this mercury got into the Flix marshes,how long ago, and whether there has been any contamination downstream. Someone, somewhere, must know all about this and has kept it very quiet.

                                                  Nelson.  

wrote on Nov 24^th, 2009 at 12:15pm:

After a recent trip to the Aragon area of the Ebro there is no possibility of the authorities there following Catalunya's lead in trying to eliminate certain species of fish. In fact they are promoting the area for fishing and tourism and are quite happy to welcome the trade that our area will lose. They issued nearly 70,000 licences this year and are confident of reaching 100,000 next year, a vast number if these are for visiting anglers and families. How many millions of tourist euros will now be spent in Aragon and not Catalunya is anyones guess. As their GREEN argument for the slaughter is no longer valid ( natural fish migration ) the only reason must be a nice earner for a very few people. What a waste .On the subject of waste I would like to draw attention to the fact that the fish mentioned contain alarming quantities of mercury and should not be going back in the food chain . It seems that Catalunya are happy enough for this to happen as some of these these fish will end up back in the food chain one way or another. There is also the problem of the 700,000 tonnes of toxic mud in our area of the Ebro that has not been dealt with. If you put "TOXIC CATFISH"  into your search engine you will see how serious this is --- look for the "nowpublic" article !

Just thought this subject was too important to be lost in a war of words .
I've met some great people here in Catalunya but like all polititions the decision makers have made a balls up again. A U turn on the fish cull would solve one of the issues.
And the beaches in Catalunya are much better !

Nowpublic article here
http://www.nowpublic.com/environment/catfish-toxic-suitable-fishmeal-production and
http://www.nowpublic.com/catfish-toxic-suitable-fishmeal-production-0

"Jordi Grimalt, an investigator at CSIC, says that the catfish contains alarming levels of mercury, which is accumulated in its organism. He affirms that “if an animal eats the contaminated catfish fishmeal, it will also accumulate that mercury. When a person eats that animal, the same will also occur.”"

“When we reach five tonnes, we'll send them to Romania. To produce fishmeal and to eat. Over there its a very highly regarded-regarded fish to eat and sending a greater quantity is cheaper for us,” said Valentin Ivanov, brother of the company's owner and the man in charge of the catfish capture."

How bl00dy stupid can people be!

Right - this thread has gone completely off topic and is becoming of no use to visitors to the Forum who might want to read about Catfish.  I have therefore gone through all the postings and removed any that I considered irrelevant.  Sorry, but if you cannot moderate yourselves then I will have to do it for you.

Well done Tony!

This section is about fishing and subjects related to fishing.

There are other parts in this forum that are open for general comments, can we please use them!!

                                            Nelson.

PS.  Anyone know how to make catfish pie?..............................

well done Tony ;D ;D about time

wrote on Nov 30^th, 2009 at 10:57am:

Well done Tony! This section is about fishing and subjects related to fishing. There are other parts in this forum that are open for general comments, can we please use them!!                                             Nelson. PS.  Anyone know how to make catfish pie?..............................

There are other vriations out there, but this seems to be the norm. or ask our Eastern European Expats.
Catfish Pie
ingredients
serves 6
675g (1 1/2 lb catfish fillets, skinned
300ml (1/2 pint) cider bouquet of fresh herbs (parsley, thyme, bayleaf)
salt and freshly ground black pepper
about 1 1/4 cups (10 fl oz) 300 ml white sauce
450 g (1 Ib) potatoes, diced
2 cloves garlic, crushed (optional)
2 medium leeks, finely chopped
1 1/3 cup (100 g) mushrooms, thinly sliced
1 quantity shortcrust pastry
1 egg, beaten, to glaze
method
1. Cook the catfish in the cider with the bouquet of herbs and seasoning to taste for 10 minutes.

2. Remove with a slotted spoon and flake the flesh, removing any bones.

3. Cook the diced potato in the fish liquid until just tender. Drain and reserve.

4. Add all the cooking liquid to the white sauce and stir in the garlic, if using.

5. Arrange the chopped leeks and mushrooms in the base of a lightly greased 1.25 litres (2 pints) pie dish.

6. Top the vegetables with the fish and potato, season lightly to taste and pour over the sauce.

7. Roll out the pastry to make a lid and use to top the pie,

8. Decorate, if liked, with pastry trimmings and glaze with the beaten egg.

9. Bake in a hot oven 220°c (425°f) gas 7 for 10 minutes then reduce to moderate 180°c (350°f) gas 4 for a further 20 minutes.

wrote on Nov 30^th, 2009 at 1:26pm:

wrote on Nov 30th, 2009 at 10:57am: Well done Tony! This section is about fishing and subjects related to fishing. There are other parts in this forum that are open for general comments, can we please use them!!                                             Nelson. PS.  Anyone know how to make catfish pie?.............................. There are other vriations out there, but this seems to be the norm. or ask our Eastern European Expats. Catfish Pie ingredients serves 6 675g (1 1/2 lb catfish fillets, skinned 300ml (1/2 pint) cider bouquet of fresh herbs (parsley, thyme, bayleaf) salt and freshly ground black pepper about 1 1/4 cups (10 fl oz) 300 ml white sauce 450 g (1 Ib) potatoes, diced 2 cloves garlic, crushed (optional) 2 medium leeks, finely chopped 1 1/3 cup (100 g) mushrooms, thinly sliced 1 quantity shortcrust pastry 1 egg, beaten, to glaze method 1. Cook the catfish in the cider with the bouquet of herbs and seasoning to taste for 10 minutes. 2. Remove with a slotted spoon and flake the flesh, removing any bones. 3. Cook the diced potato in the fish liquid until just tender. Drain and reserve. 4. Add all the cooking liquid to the white sauce and stir in the garlic, if using. 5. Arrange the chopped leeks and mushrooms in the base of a lightly greased 1.25 litres (2 pints) pie dish. 6. Top the vegetables with the fish and potato, season lightly to taste and pour over the sauce. 7. Roll out the pastry to make a lid and use to top the pie, 8. Decorate, if liked, with pastry trimmings and glaze with the beaten egg. 9. Bake in a hot oven 220°c (425°f) gas 7 for 10 minutes then reduce to moderate 180°c (350°f) gas 4 for a further 20 minutes.

You would be mad to eat freshwater fish from the Ebro...,easily recognised though....your the one that glows in the dark !!

Geandi,
           I was only making a funny, like you , after sitting on the bank and watching what comes down I wouldn't fancy eating anything out of that river. The EU has attempted to stop all outlets that enter the river unless it has been treated(and that's a laugh) on top of that I hate to think of all the weed killers and fertilisers that come off the land into that water table. It's a shame that this beautiful river is treated as a sewage and waste outlet to the sea, no wonder parts of the Med are deteriorating so much.

                                               Nelson

Maybe you need to substitute the cider  for good old fashioned Scrumpie. That never failed to kill me off for days on end! Or curry catfish..now there is an idea

Oiy

This posting is about fishing not Cooking!!

Here,here.....this thread has gone completely off topic.I expect all cooking related additions to be removed forthwith.We simply cannot allow this type of behaviour and abuse of this forum to continue.God only  knows where this could lead in the future,self catering holidays in Extremadura perhaps.Tony,do your job !!!!!

Disgusted of Bitem

I see no need for the sarcasm.  You all soon call me to order if I fail to moderate something that you consider should be moderated.  The title of the thread is very clear in what it is referring to and that is what should be under discussion.  If you want to discuss a different topic then a new thread should be opened.

so are you going to remove the recipes then and transfer them to the cooking section ????

wrote on Dec 1^st, 2009 at 8:58pm:

so are you going to remove the recipes then and transfer them to the cooking section ????

I think we need a poisoning section  ;D

I think that you will find that the recipes are related to Catfish which is the heading of the topic.  Whether you wish to cook the fish that you catch from the Ebro is up to you.

Does anyone have a good recipe for Bouillbaise.

Sounds French to me,would not touch it with a barge pole !

French, and fishy.

Notrob please See Cooking Section

Yes

JamJarChris wrote on Nov 26^th, 2009 at 4:26pm:

Nowpublic article here http://www.nowpublic.com/environment/catfish-toxic-suitable-fishmeal-production and http://www.nowpublic.com/catfish-toxic-suitable-fishmeal-production-0 "Jordi Grimalt, an investigator at CSIC, says that the catfish contains alarming levels of mercury, which is accumulated in its organism. He affirms that “if an animal eats the contaminated catfish fishmeal, it will also accumulate that mercury. When a person eats that animal, the same will also occur.”" “When we reach five tonnes, we'll send them to Romania. To produce fishmeal and to eat. Over there its a very highly regarded-regarded fish to eat and sending a greater quantity is cheaper for us,” said Valentin Ivanov, brother of the company's owner and the man in charge of the catfish capture." How bl00dy stupid can people be!

I have heard that the central and European powers that be have stepped in and the netting and transfer of fish dead or alive has been stopped due to them being  contaminated . I'd like to think this is true but as the lower Ebro being in Catalunya if anyone has any official word on this could they post it to stop all the rumours please.