Hi everyone, hope to be comeing out for good,( oh no not another one i here you say)

Been looking at the price of Septic tanks( yellow suba) although the price is not too bad, i'v been looking on the net and found it's not to hard to build  my own. Bloke built one out of 40gall plastic barrels.As we don't have any near neighbours, has anyone built their own, and got any tips. We live on a mountain side with lots of terrace :-/

I have sent you a PM
steve

I looked into the possibility of building a complete sewage system. It is not actually too difficult. There is plenty of information on the net. I am also a qualified biologist specialing in plants and micro-organisms though so had a good background knowledge already. If I can make some suggestions;

DO not just let the outflow go directly onto the land - send it through a reed bed first. Line the reed bed with polythene or fiberglass first to reduce seepage of germs.

Do not build a brick septic tank unless you line the inside with THICK fiberglass and resin because the germs will still seep out into the land if you don't.

Don't send your grey water through it because it will be too wasteful and it will deposit a thick layer of grease and oil on the surface. Send your grey water though a big sand filter - remember depth of sand is equally as important as surface area and include an activated charcoal layer to remove chemicals like detergent, bleach, etc. Your grey water should come out clear ans should be re-useable for flushing toilets, washing clothes, bathing etc. Grey water is deemed to be from washing, bathing, showers, washing machines, washing up etc.

I question why you want a septic tank though. Why not just use a composting toilet? Some of the modern ones look very smart and you end up after a couple of years with rich organic matter for your trees/flowers/bushes etc.

There is a very good book on the market called The Humanure Handbook. here's the link http://humanurehandbook.com/store/THE-HUMANURE-HANDBOOK.html

You can also download it for just over 8 Euros

I would recommend it to all those reading who currently just squat behind a wall or dig a hole!  :-X

There are many suppliers and useful sites- one or two are ....
http://www.separett.eu/
http://www.motherearthnews.com/ask-our-experts/what-are-composting-toilets-zb0z09zblon.aspxhttp://www.sun-mar.com/prod_self_exce.html

take a look on ebay too. There are a few commercial models on there but it is a doddle to build your own.

The Humanure handbook is available for download at around 8 euros from the Humanure book site (it used to be free).

Update:

I,ve uploaded it.... You should be able to download it here...
http://www.datafilehost.com/download-733537b7.html

It is also available here for free download  from other peoples sites:

http://www.weblife.org/humanure/

and here ...
http://www.permacultureusa.org/2008/09/18/humanure-handbook-free-download/
And here .......
http://ebookee.org/The-Humanure-Handbook-A-Guide-to-Composting-Human-Manure_1032282.html

Thanks for this.
Phil

re composting toilets : we have got a Separett urine- seperating toilet seat which is a lot cheaper than buying the whole system. Now we are out here semi-perminently we are going to use it (once we have built a outside loo room)
and see how it works. With composting toilets the key seems to be keeping the urine and poo seperate.

Difficult when you've got a slack bladder

Nobby, have you STILL not been to the doctors yet???
:o

I'll look into the compost, not to hard though, my misses has a sensitive nose. Just though a yellow submerine was a bit expensive, when i could do it myself. I'm going to be on Solar so any info in this area would be greatfully recived. 8-)

If you have room in your transport, bring your solar equipment with you. We found it's way too expensive in Spain compared to the UK. There is a company called Navitron who supply solar systems. Their website is: http://www.navitron.org.uk/

They sometimes have offers on. For example, I bought the
sfa20-47hot water solar heater with integrated tank  including VAT at 17.5% and delivery in the UK (at £100) for less than £450 at one such time. The quality is good too. I would recommend them.

At the moment of writing, they have a solar hot water heating system with integrated tank, 24 tube (58mm diameter tubes) for just £450 plus vat (540 inc vat)  plus delivery. Normal Price is £695 plus vat plus delivery. The model number is sfd24-58 and it's in the 'sale' section (link on left of page).

I would recommend doing your home work on the photovoltic side of things. Many people are under the mistaken idea that you need inverters to jump the voltage up from 12 volts to 240 volts, but since you haven't got it set up yet, I would advise buying everything that runs on 12 volts, ie TV, DVD player, CD player, Radio, low energy lights etc.

The reason is that not only do you save by not having to buy  inverters, but you won't be subjecting your battreies to heavy loads and  draining your batteries all the time. You won't be able to run washing machines like this, but  thats what generators are for. Running one for an hour or so every now and then won't break the bank.

If you run gas lights such as those found in older caravans, they cost next to nothingto run and you can still buy the gas mantles on ebay easily.



:)

John.

I resectfully disagree with you John as in order to wire even a moderately sized house with extra large cable to run a 12v system would be prohibitely expensive. Also if on the 12volt system as battery power is used up then the voltage supplied wil reduce accordingly, ie 10% of power used , now at 10.8 volts. 15% = 10.2 volts. Very dim lights and probably not enough voltage to run all that you want and very much reduced life in your batteries.
However on a 24 or 48 volt system with proper inverter/ charger, then there is no voltage drop, its 230v all the way.
Also if you need to buy anything else in the way of appliances they are readily available and not at an exhorbitant price.
Try charging a phone , rechargeable batteries, or running security lights or using a bread maker, a food mixer. Do you really want to be starting a generator, (which costs money and pollutes EVERY time you use it) because you want to go on line to look at this forum for example?
Generators cost a lot of money to run. Plus you have to go and get the fuel in the first place, which also costs money.
If you are living here in the campo then solar and wind is the ONLY way to go.
Re Navitron,
I bought one of the first Navitron solar water heating set-ups 7 years ago.
IT IS FANTASTIC.
My 20 tubes produce enough hot water for 4 people all through the summer and enough for one person in the winter. I have invested in a top up gas boiler for the winter months Nov- March which uses very little gas as it only tops up the partially heated water to 80c
Just my opinion on the subject, as I want to live as 'greenly' as possible :)

Thanks for your info John, i will certainly look into the Navitron water system. As to the 12 v 24 debate, i'm still on the fence, friends have 24 and it works for them. l think l will need a genny for the wash machine, my hands get so red and raw 8-)

We have three different genis(petrol and diesel,3000rpm and 1500rpm)and our washer doesn't like any of them. It comes up with a different error code for each one. It likes the inverter though. So unless you get a basic machine(no digital readouts) you will be handwashing anyway.
Bruixot

wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 12:42am:

If you have room in your transport, bring your solar equipment with you. We found it's way too expensive in Spain compared to the UK. There is a company called Navitron who supply solar systems. Their website is: http://www.navitron.org.uk/ They sometimes have offers on. For example, I bought the sfa20-47hot water solar heater with integrated tank  including VAT at 17.5% and delivery in the UK (at £100) for less than £450 at one such time. The quality is good too. I would recommend them. At the moment of writing, they have a solar hot water heating system with integrated tank, 24 tube (58mm diameter tubes) for just £450 plus vat (540 inc vat)  plus delivery. Normal Price is £695 plus vat plus delivery. The model number is sfd24-58 and it's in the 'sale' section (link on left of page). I would recommend doing your home work on the photovoltic side of things. Many people are under the mistaken idea that you need inverters to jump the voltage up from 12 volts to 240 volts, but since you haven't got it set up yet, I would advise buying everything that runs on 12 volts, ie TV, DVD player, CD player, Radio, low energy lights etc. The reason is that not only do you save by not having to buy  inverters, but you won't be subjecting your battreies to heavy loads and  draining your batteries all the time. You won't be able to run washing machines like this, but  thats what generators are for. Running one for an hour or so every now and then won't break the bank. If you run gas lights such as those found in older caravans, they cost next to nothingto run and you can still buy the gas mantles on ebay easily. :) John.

ON the electrickery side I too would have to disagree.It just isn't practical buying 12v this and 12v that.For a small to average house nothing less than a 24vdc  240v ac  system.Trust me,ask anyone living in the campo.As for gas lighting,the industrial revolution was years ago.....

Well guys,

I guess I'm the odd one out on the electricity side of things! Although I use one or two 12 volt lights, I do mainly use gas lights - industrial revolution or not! My tv, dvd player , video player, and everything else apart from my washing machine is 12 volts!

My washing machine is a basic 3 year old twin tub working off 240 volts and does need a 850watt generator to run it. I use a twin tub because we are very short of water on our finca and whilst a front loading automatic machine is easier, it uses tons of water we simply don't have.

Looks like my system which works perfectly well for us seems to be not to everyones favour. Still if we were all the same, the world would be boring.

Hi John what make of twin tub is it thanks .
Phil :)

philmountains wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 5:23am:

Hi John what make of twin tub is it thanks . Phil :)

This is the twin tub I use. Now 5 years old and as good as new.
http://www.thompsons-online.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=10

philmountains wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 5:23am:

Hi John what make of twin tub is it thanks . Phil :)

Hi Phil,
It's a Polar machine. I'd need to check on the exact model but I think it's the jetstream. Be aware they do not have heating elements like the old Hotpoint/hoover machines so you need to fill with hot or warm water from your tap.

Here's a link to the manufacturer/supplier...
http://twintub.co.uk/

It's worth looking at the full range they have and also on the 'Eco freindly Twintub' link.

I don't know if they still deliver worldwide. But they are very light so would easily fit into a small van or estate car.


Hope this helps.

John.

Thanks boys for the links,how much washing can one of these do :-? like a pair of jeans , boiler suite etc....
thanks again
Phil

philmountains wrote on Jun 8^th, 2011 at 8:17am:

Thanks boys for the links,how much washing can one of these do :-? like a pair of jeans , boiler suite etc.... thanks again Phil

Mine does about a weeks worth of washing. Not all in one go - I wash all the whites first, then the coloured stuff then the jeans. I know the dyes in most modern fabrics don't run these days, but they still do for the jeans and I don't like to chance it.

I'll  wash two or three pairs of jeans at a time. I could put the whole weeks washing in my machine in one go  but then I'd have colours running. Total wash time for three loads as above  is less than 3/4 hour (I could do three loads in less than 1/4 hour)  both of which are even faster than your automatics and cheap to run. The length of time for each wash is set by you on a timer like on the old hoover/hotpoint machines.

T shirts are the only things that are a problem in as much as they sometimes twist out of shape in the spinner so go easy on them (very very short spin and hang out).

I would definitely get one if you have limited water supplies.

John

Phil
yesterday I had visitors go back to uk so I washed 2 lots of bed linen (double duvet covers and sheets and pillow cases and 2 bath towels and 2 hand towels all in one go. They have a large capacity and use very little water and electric. They are normal sized washing machines.
Also I have plumbed mine in as I have solar heated hot water.

There is also the advantage that you can pre-soak heavily soiled washing before starting the wash cycle.

As Catus Jack says, they hold a lot of clothes. Probably the same as or more than an automatic machine.

This forum is going rapidly down hill.....grown men talking about washing,what next,grooming products.

P.S.Did you hear about the popes favourite grooming products....????

Just wait till I start on about the pile of ironing....... ;D

well Nobbby there aint much use in Grooming products for myself, fat ,old and bald so bring on the mister sheen  ;D

philmountains wrote on Jun 8^th, 2011 at 2:40pm:

well Nobbby there aint much use in Grooming products for myself, fat ,old and bald so bring on the mister sheen  ;D

Those yellow dusters work quite well at bringing up a good shine   ;)

Hi Guys,
Sorry to bring back the 12 v 24volt system, but if i'm going to run a 24v system. Will 4 6volt deep cell batt be ok, and how big a Solar system would i need, ie would 4panel @ 230w be enough. :-/

4x6volt is 24v so yes to that question but the amount of amp hour capacity of the batteries is important too. It depends entirely on what you will be running. 920watts of solar coming in( based on you getting this maximum of course). The balancing trick is what you are using in a day(24hour period) and how low this will push your batteries. New batteries are the expensive part of a solar system and you don't want to be replacing them after a short amount of time. Whilst most of the literature about batteries is based on a 50% drain cycle ideally,if you really want to get your money's worth, you shouldn't be letting them drop below 80%. I am in my third year of second hand batteries and with careful stewardship they are still going strong. A little too much solar os key as an extra panel or two is cheaper than a new battery bank. My previous system was 24v with 800w of solar and I ran a very small house with a water pump but NO electric fridge freezer. Gas would be the way here.
So, a little too much solar and be slightly paranoid about the condition of your batteries. I would recommend a nice little battery monitor for this. They give you readings in/out in amps,volts,watts or to keep it really simple for the non techies a percentage of power left in batteries. You can see at a glance if you need to boost them with your geni then.
I don't know if you are building/installing yourself but I would recommend you make sure your system is upgradeable later. Eg your charge controller can handle more panels if you want them later.
I would also reccomend sizing your bank size carefully as you cannot"add" battery capacity later. Old batteries mixed with new pull them down to their operational level.
Bleh, that's enough for this time of the morning I think. I could put you in touch with someone who will go on about this stuff for hours if you really want to know. Ask me for an email address if you would like this.
Bruixot

I agree with everything Bruxiot has written although I would like to add that I run a 24v system with 4x 12v 250amp batteries, so effectively 24v 500amp/hr battery bank.
|I have 540 watts at 12v solar panels wired to give 270watts at 24v. This is enough to keep the battery bank at over 25volts all the time, and I have an A+ large fridge / freezer which only uses 100watts or 0.3 amps with a soft start.
I also have a 500watt 24v wind turbine, which is awaiting a new controller/charger, so isnt connected up yet.
If you are interested in an excellent supplier of solar equipment over here, with fantastic back-up and brilliant prices then message me.
Steve

Well, if we are getting into a peeing contest, then I have a 48v 500amph bank with a 3kw inverter with 2220watts of solar! Mine's bigger than yours Steve! And I have future charge controller capacity to go to 3kw. I wonder if my guy is the same as your guy?
; )
Bruixot

Ok yours is bigger than mine.
Mine is called Bert

Ooh! I hadn't thought of giving it a name. Suggestions on a postcard please.
Bruixot

we have 4 kilowatts constantly, no batteries, no generator,
supplied and fitted & maintained by endesa. No problems  ;) ;D

Mr Spanishcatfishing you are just showing off.....keep paying the bills and help use up the plutonium..lol

No problem? So it never suddenly cuts off for awhile like it used to when I lived in a village? And the price doesn't keep going up either?
Bruixot

Steady on guys, this is my 1st day in retirement and my head is full with all your surgestions, greatfully recievd though, keep them comeing. l'v got 2 months to plan what we are going to use, moving out begining of Nov.
I'm looking at 4x6 volt batt of 600ah, made by Rolls a Canadian coy.
So your saying i could run my system on about 800watt panels, i want to power a fridge/freezer.a couple of lights( with LED bulbs), and prob a pump for the shower. The pool can have it's own mini system. everything else is going to be gas.
Before we bought our place we had a look at a property in the hills at the back of Ampolla an there was a 6000 cc Magi-Deutz engine in the garage for the elec, nobody can beat that, or can they?
Yes the forum is going downhill, i'v got to do the housework now, while e'er indoors is at work ;D
Thanks for your advice.
Bob :)

Pish....so you guys have all been to Tenerife,we've just got back from Elevenerife

cactus jack wrote on Jun 8^th, 2011 at 11:39am:

Just wait till I start on about the pile of ironing....... ;D

My Iron runs off propane gas not electric!

Like this one ... http://open.jorum.ac.uk/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/10501/DSCN0833.JPG?sequence=6
It's old but it works!

surely it would be easier to get electric installed rather than hunt down things like this?

John.

There's another one available on ebay right now......
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Radiation-Rhythm-No-375U-Gas-iron-very-nice-/360397052343?pt=UK_Collectables_Kitchenalia_RL&hash=item53e95699b7#ht_3102wt_1270

£18 !