Received this on my Facebook account..........food for thought?

Australia says NO, again

Too bad WE can’t be more like the Aussies!

Australia says NO - Second Time she has done this!

AMAZING You must read it !!!!

She's done it again.. She sure isn't backing down on her hard line stance and one has to appreciate her belief in the rights of her native countrymen. A breath of fresh air to see someone lead. I wish some leaders would step up in Canada & USA.

Australian Prime Minister does it again!! This woman should be appointed Queen of the World.. Truer words have never been spoken.

It took a lot of courage for this woman to speak what she had to say for the world to hear. The retribution could be phenomenal, but at least she was willing to take a stand on her and Australia 's beliefs. The whole world needs a leader like this!

Prime Minister Julia Gillard - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..

Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society. Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.' 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves in Canada & USA , WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths. If you agree please SEND THIS ON and ON, to as many people as you know

Sorry - spoof letter
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml

... but still food for thought

pity as its not their country it belongs to the aborigines

Hi Robo,
Don't know much about Australia, were the Abo's christian or muslim?
From a very confused Bulldog.

Merriman is right, it's a spoof, a fake. It's been attributed to quite a few politicians over the years but it's just wishful thinking on the part of the writers.
Besides when have you ever known a politician to be that honest?
Bruixot

Spoof or not, makes you wonder how true the old adage " When in Rome".   Isn't that why some of us are out here, because of a weak government,  trying to score points from a  PC agenda; giving thousands of pounds to foreigners so they  can pursue there own political aims in the uk, when British citizens are struggling to survive.  :(

Not us.  We came out here for the weather and because we were so fed up with whining Brits.

Fact is 'most' Brits, like 'most' Australians don't believe in God and they don't go to church or practice Christianity.  And I'm sorry but the amount of whinging that goes on here about Spanish/Catalan culture/way of life from shop opening times to food to treatment of animals shows that a vast number of ex pats aren't here to assimilate either.

"Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society. Learn the language!" The number of ex pats here (or should I say immigrants) that don't bother to learn Spanish or Catalan and who prefer to associate with other British  is ridiculous too. 

I quite agree with everything that you say Pondgirl but although I am learning Spanish, slowly I might add, I still like to get together with the Brits for a morning coffee or drink at least once a week.

I'm sorry, but what has god got to do with it. My religion is my business. I  live my life in a christian way.treating others as  l myself would want to be treated.  l don't need to believe. in some Sky pixie to be a christian. l know it's that time of year for some people, but can we please have a discussion without  bringing  Religion into it.  Myself and most of my British friends embrace  the Spanish way of Life, if you can overlook the corruption that goes on, as l do. Yes we love the weather too. What were the " whining brits "  whining about befor. you came out here.

I don't think it was a personal attack. I got the impression pond girl was commenting on the original post of the spoof statement. It is funny how people get worked up about religion though. Unfortunately you can't be a Christian if you don't beleive in the sky pixie though. That makes you an atheist. If you believe but don't practice worship then your agnostic. Morality IS NOT just due to religon it's an evolutionary trait. Otherwise atheist's would all be calculating monsters or rampaging killers.
"Having religion is like having a thingy. It's fine to have one and fine to think yours is better than everyone else's but I don't want to see it and I don't want you to show it to my children."
Whingeing Brits was a general statement too it seemed.
Bruixot

Apparently you can't use anatomical words on the forum. I didn't write thingy!
Bruixot

Most women worship my thingy  ;D ;D ;D

Merry Christmas. With or without religion

Pondgirl are you "whinging" about whingers?

Bruixot, you are quite right of course, I made the comment because in the original post the Australian President allegedly claimed that the majority of Aussies are Christians but as you say, like the majority of Brits, they are probably agnostic.  I certainly wasn't attacking anyone personally and I'm not suggesting for a minute that British people in Spain shouldn't associate with each other.  I just get a bit fed up with the complaints about 'immigrants' in the UK not assimilating when the British ex-pats famously don't.

Cactus Jack, you are a lucky man  :D

Smidge, probably  ::)  :)

i have to admit i am a born again atheist, what i do like about spain is the way the spanish accept us, totally different from what i see and hear back home when other nationalities are encountered, the polish that have finished up living in our area are treated like scum by my fellow country men, unlike the treatment we get when walking through the village in spain where every one is courteous and friendly

Of course we're accepted,most of us have something to bring to the table,were as most of the Eastern Europeans for example bring nothing except maybe the willingness to graft.

That's not really 'nothing' though is it? 

It seems to me that the locals here are happy to accept anyone, whatever their nationality, who is willing to work hard and/or take part in village life.

The point I was trying to make is that it often seems that the British emigrants feel as though they don't have to bother to learn the language or integrate in other ways yet they get upset if immigrants into the UK don't.  It's like the sun never set on the Empire.

Is there anybody here who actually speaks or understands Catalan who genuinely thinks they have been accepted by the locals ?

There are some nice and friendly people here, but it is a small percentage in my experience. Tortosa and Amposta are notoriously unfriendly, even to local catalans from 10 or 20km away, some of the local villages a lot better.

I think There is a big difference to immigrants moving to the UK, and immigrants in Spain mainly that the  majority in the UK are  there for the Benefits and free health care and crime  >:( I am in no way classing all like that  but that,s the way I see it.
Also  I would love to speak Catalan/Spanish but what with work, life, I just don't have the time to learn :-[ whilst you were all tucking into your Xmas dinner I was working all day any yesterday did a 14 hour day "Yes in a dirty NHS hospital" more than likely for the last xmas as this job is coming to a end this year after 12 years.

wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 9:44am:

Is there anybody here who actually speaks or understands Catalan who genuinely thinks they have been accepted by the locals ?

Totally.  We went to Catalan classes as soon as we arrived here and managed to learn some Spanish beforehand. We have made some very good friends in the village and I don't think that they would have given us Christmas presents or invited us to their houses if we weren't 'accepted'.

philmountains wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 10:03am:

I think There is a big difference to immigrants moving to the UK, and immigrants in Spain mainly that the  majority in the UK are  there for the Benefits and free health care and crime  >:( I am in no way classing all like that  but that,s the way I see it. Also  I would love to speak Catalan/Spanish but what with work, life, I just don't have the time to learn :-[ whilst you were all tucking into your Xmas dinner I was working all day any yesterday did a 14 hour day "Yes in a dirty NHS hospital" more than likely for the last xmas as this job is coming to a end this year after 12 years.

I really don't think that 'the majority' of immigrants to the UK are there for the benefits etc even if a lot of them are but I suppose we all have a different perception of that.

I genuinely think that if people want to settle in a country they should learn the language.  Isn't it a bit arrogant to assume that everyone else should help you?  And isn't it dangerous not to understand what the doctors, police or other services are saying to you?

[/quote]
I really don't think that 'the majority' of immigrants to the UK are there for the benefits etc even if a lot of them are but I suppose we all have a different perception of that.

I genuinely think that if people want to settle in a country they should learn the language.  Isn't it a bit arrogant to assume that everyone else should help you?  And isn't it dangerous not to understand what the doctors, police or other services are saying to you?[/quote]


My Catalan and Spanish is rubbish,the only foriegn language I even vaugely understand is Grammar school French and yes,I agree pondgirl....however 0.001% of the worlds population speaks Catalan were as 30% of the world population speaks English,they need it for business,media,tourism,etc etc. The clued up ones learn English. Also,when dealing with any government agencies,it is our right to ask for and recieve a translator.....It is however not an excuse not to learn.

I suppose it depends on whether you are dealing with Catalans or the rest of the world in your daily life as to whether or not you learn the language.  Spanish, of course is one of the major spoken languages in the world and well worth learning.

The right to a translator is enshrined in EU law which is one of the things that seems to piss off the British when they are expected to provide translators in Polish or Romanian but they are happy to take advantage of it when they get pissed up and arrested in Spain.

Again my point all along has been that the British are just arrogant in assuming that everyone will speak their language when they aren't tolerant of people who haven't mastered English when living in the UK.  Double standards.

wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 10:24pm:

Again my point all along has been that the British are just arrogant in assuming that everyone will speak their language when they aren't tolerant of people who haven't mastered English when living in the UK.  Double standards.

Very true, guilty your honor.....

wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 9:44am:

Is there anybody here who actually speaks or understands Catalan who genuinely thinks they have been accepted by the locals ? There are some nice and friendly people here, but it is a small percentage in my experience. Tortosa and Amposta are notoriously unfriendly, even to local catalans from 10 or 20km away, some of the local villages a lot better.

wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 12:49pm:

wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 9:44am: Is there anybody here who actually speaks or understands Catalan who genuinely thinks they have been accepted by the locals ? Totally.  We went to Catalan classes as soon as we arrived here and managed to learn some Spanish beforehand. We have made some very good friends in the village and I don't think that they would have given us Christmas presents or invited us to their houses if we weren't 'accepted'.

Your experience relates to a Village, not Tortosa or Amposta, as I said, villages are different.




wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 10:24pm:

I suppose it depends on whether you are dealing with Catalans or the rest of the world in your daily life as to whether or not you learn the language.  Spanish, of course is one of the major spoken languages in the world and well worth learning. The right to a translator is enshrined in EU law which is one of the things that seems to piss off the British when they are expected to provide translators in Polish or Romanian but they are happy to take advantage of it when they get pissed up and arrested in Spain. Again my point all along has been that the British are just arrogant in assuming that everyone will speak their language when they aren't tolerant of people who haven't mastered English when living in the UK.  Double standards.

So then, how do you view the locals view that everybody should speak Catalan ?

Do you realise that around here they do not even speak Catalan, they speak Tortosien, a mix of Catalan and Castellon dialect spoken with a very heavy [aka unintelligible] accent ?

People who do learn Catalan end up learning 2 versions, one of which is of zero use in Tarragona or beyond and one of which is useless [and ultimately offensive] to the rest of Spain and Spanish speaking people.

We frequently shop and have coffee in Tortosa (we only live ten minutes away) and find most people friendly and helpful. The Spanish don't do as much 'please and thank you' as the British, but it is just a cultural difference and doesn't make either right or wrong.

wrote on Dec 28^th, 2012 at 11:00am:

[quote author=5B7A7A777B414A716C6C7B6D1E0 link=1356186250/17#17 date=1356597869] So then, how do you view the locals view that everybody should speak Catalan ? Do you realise that around here they do not even speak Catalan, they speak Tortosien, a mix of Catalan and Castellon dialect spoken with a very heavy [aka unintelligible] accent ? People who do learn Catalan end up learning 2 versions, one of which is of zero use in Tarragona or beyond and one of which is useless [and ultimately offensive] to the rest of Spain and Spanish speaking people.

We don't go to Amposta much but we go to Tortosa regularly and we have  found people there to be very friendly on the whole.  Obviously not everyone is going to be lovely any more than everyone in a British town would be.

Of course I'm aware that everyone speaks a different dialect, in our village its 'Masover' but we have never had a problem with anyone understanding basic catalan as far north as Perpignan and as far south as Valencia.  Our experience has been that if we make an effort, and we do mix in castillian too, then we are understood.  When we are in 'the rest' of Spain we speak castillian and if we have lapsed into catalan I have never noticed anyone being offended.

As for "the locals view that everybody should speak Catalan" that just isn't true of the majority of people we have talked with when applied to immigrants/ex-pats, they are more than happy to speak castillian.  Obviously catalan is the first language and it makes sense to know it, you can't go to school or work for the Government if you don't.  I actually think that they have made a mistake with their hard line approach but that is a political opinion.

The reason that I personally made the effort to learn catalan is because I would feel isolated if I lived somewhere where I couldn't understand all the chatter going on around me when I go shopping or go to the bars or restaurants.

After eight years here my experience is the same as pondgirls except we do go to Amposta often and everything she said applies there too. My partner who speaks no Catalan or Castillian but understands some has encountered one rude and unhelpful person in her nearly five years here. As for being understood I have had no problems in Barcelona or down south although everyone knows I am English and learned to speak the language in Tarragona due to my accents. However I have met expats complaining bitterly about the rudeness and unhelpfulness of certain people who I have found to be sweetness and light and willing to try very hard to help me.
Bruixot

I really wish I could get down to just learning some Spanish for a start !! I would love to be able to talk to my neighbors,friends Its  hard work with sign language or scratching "poor" drawings in the dirt I  made a new friend "farmer" last time over but as the week went on he just stopped trying to talk to me as we both knew that I did not understand a word !!!!
By the way everything is moving on at speed for my 1st driving down to Tortosa trip in February. Just bought a van (06 LT35) priced up ferry etc..... and  Euro Tunnel cheapest at £309 Return,  contacted Les the van man for advise but  no reply as yet, so any advise Re the Trip appreciated,  reccomended route down, good places  to stop, parts to avoid etc........
Thanks Phil :D

Phil I can thoroughly recommend Michel Thomas for learning Spanish.

As for favourite routes through France, from the chunnel we like
Calais
Boulogne
Rouen
Evreux
Dreux
Chatres
Chateaudun
Blois
Chateauroux
Limoges
Perigueux (where we stay the night at the excellent Ibis hotel)
Agen
Auch
Lannemezan
Montrejeau
(straight on down to) the Viehla tunnel
el Pont de Suert
Lleida
then Flix, Asco etc

this route avoids most tolls and is scenic but with good straight roads. You can practically draw a straight line down from Calais to Tortosa.

Dont quite know how we got onto this from "Australian President causes a stir" but avoid Paris like the plague and if you are looking for somewhere to stay halfway, pm me.

Well we did manage two pages on what was essentially a non-story so that wasn't too bad  :)

I agree about avoiding Paris, it's horrendous and going through really doesn't save time and I would definitely recommend avoiding toll roads as they are so expensive.

Thanks Pondgirl and Ian,I haven't thought of your route pondgirl I will check this route  I have been in the Viehla tunnel area climbing years ago, is this the N260 road down to Pont de Suert  ?
Ian I will try to sleep in back of van if there is any space left LOL !!!! I am also hoping to bring roofing sheets down with me as  there is quite a difference in price and the wifes over the moon that all the stuff I've been hoarding for years will finally been gone :)

N230, I think.  We've done it a couple of times now, there and back, and stayed overnight in Perigueux (having arrived in Calais at 9am ish) we've usually arrived in Tortosa at about 6 or 7 the following evening I think.  It's a lot less miles/km than going via Perpignan, Barcelona etc but probably best if you have a GPS or a reliable co-pilot  :)

Thanks again Pondgirl for your help, its going to be a real one off adventure for me this trip(1 month off work) I've made a note of your directions and I'm going to be  looking at it tonight at work :D
My main concern apart from the thoughts of breakdown etc... is my van is slow, very slow !!!!also unfortunately making this trip on my own so no one to scream at either when it all goes terribly wrong LOL ;)
looks like a very early morning start from here in North Yorks and poss 3 day trip ?