Hi. A while ago someone left a note on the chain to my finca and offered a multitude of different services fro construction to tree pruning and electrical installations. My roof needed replacing so i rang him for a quote and references before i would let him do anything. When I met him he claimed he'd had a building company in the Ukraine and showed me lots of pics and videos of work he claimed to have done. It all looked fairly good and I got him to give me a quote. The quote was acceptable for the work he'd do so i said yes.
He ripped me off!! He couldn't even mix cement, didn't do what i'd expected, and left the roof unfinished. In addition he returned construction materials, paid for by me, to where they were bought and pocketed the money. Be wary of him because he's very convincing and I know he's desperate for money again. For more info you can pm me or txt to 653516183.
He's covering quite a wide area but is centred around Gandesa/ Batea so just be careful before you employ anyone of Baltic origin. Get good references from customers who have nothing to gain. :'(

Sorry to hear about your troubles but I think that you will find that the Ukraine is on the Black Sea.  Not sure that anyone on here who might be from the Baltic States would be happy with you defaming their characters.  Anyway, a wise after the event tale and thanks for the warning for us all to be on our guard

Ah I see Tony, showing off again!!! Just because you obtained that Geography "O" Level.   ;D

Balkans!  8-)

If in doubt, ask here.  So many members have good and bad experiences from casual labour that it should not be difficult to ask for a recommendation or cv from others.  We have had 18 months work from a band of south Americans we would trust and recommend .... far better than local or UK builders.  Contact me if you want to know more.

Me again. Does it matter whether or not the Ukraine is in the Balkans or not? i only wanted to point out that there is a guy who really wants to rip you off, and is quite convincing too. In fact, after posting my original warning, someone pointed out that the guy in question is advertising his 'services' here on the forum. His post is dated Sept 11th, posted at 1.06pm and can be seen in this section (Other useful stuff).
I will not name him on the forum but, as stated previously, if you require more info you can text or ring me. Be careful. ;)

Based in Gandesa?

Umm, he's not exactly based in Gandesa but he is midway between Gandesa & Batea. He'll offer to travel any distance though and offer to use his multitude of professional tools, most of which didn't manifest at my place, or became defective so he had to use mine.
Sorry but no more replies from me today, no 'net at home and i'm orf away from pc now.
Adios.

sutgesdad wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 4:35pm:

Hi. A while ago someone left a note on the chain to my finca and offered a multitude of different services fro construction to tree pruning and electrical installations. My roof needed replacing so i rang him for a quote and references before i would let him do anything. When I met him he claimed he'd had a building company in the Ukraine and showed me lots of pics and videos of work he claimed to have done. It all looked fairly good and I got him to give me a quote. The quote was acceptable for the work he'd do so i said yes. He ripped me off!! He couldn't even mix cement, didn't do what i'd expected, and left the roof unfinished. In addition he returned construction materials, paid for by me, to where they were bought and pocketed the money. Be wary of him because he's very convincing and I know he's desperate for money again. For more info you can pm me or txt to 653516183. He's covering quite a wide area but is centred around Gandesa/ Batea so just be careful before you employ anyone of Baltic origin. Get good references from customers who have nothing to gain. :'(

"sutgesdad" has slandered me without a single acknowledgement and I must answer!
In Ukraine for more than 14 years working in the field of construction and engineering services, have higher technical education. Started work as an ordinary assembler utilities , was the Manager of a large house in a wealthy people, currently I own a construction company in Ukraine.
Yes I know "sutgesdad" he introduced himself to me as Paul. He called me and said that he has a problem with the roof and we agreed to meet. When we talked to him on the Finca for replacement of the roof he explained to me what he wants, and based on this I have calculated a replacement roof. 3-4 days he thought and then made part of the money for the purchase of materials. Total replacement of the roof was 50% cheaper than offered him the English builders, 25% cheaper than the Spanish builders and cheaper than the Romanian builders, were used more expensive materials and of course he agreed. After I imported the first batch of material and had to start, Paul told me that you must first destroy the old walls on the terrace and then to build new, and then start the installation of a new roof. I told him - of these works is not in my calculations, but he said it should be done.
Only for destruction took about a week for 10-12 hours a day the walls were very strong (it is unclear why they had to break?). Then new walls were built and welded metal structure which is bolted sheets of OSB-3 is durable composite material made of wood from which are built the house and the roof on American technology. I chose this material for the roof, because the house was built without reinforcement belt and use traditional flat bricks for the roof was dangerous because they are very heavy and would be a big load on walls and foundations. On top of the OSB-3 applied waterproofing and put natural tiles. And all this was completed by one person without assistance!
Demolition of the old walls as well as additional materials that are needed in the process have not been paid!!! Besides Paul wanted him I did free facade forcing me threats. I of course from these works refused.
Regarding the remaining materials - yes indeed some of the materials I bought more than was necessary, but in the calculations was a fixed amount for the roof and the remains I was obliged to take, according to Spanish laws - about me and the floor said the lawyer, who works in the television station of Gandesa. So about the theft can't even be considered! And if it were not so, Paul would have immediately gone to the police and reported the theft, but it has now been 2 months and now he writes about me such shit!? The roof is finished what is photo. I also have written by hand Floor paper work is finished and all he wants to do will make other people. Therefore, all the accusations against me are absolutely groundless!
Maybe you were mad at me for what I am not interested in you when you showed me your panties slid the pants with the flag of Wales - sorry but I'm not gay!!!

Now photo which you can see how work was done, and it can be seen that the roof is finished!
And who after this of us conman?!!!!

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As the preparation of cement and lay the blocks

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Metal fabrication

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The steel bolted sheets of OSB-3 and covered with waterproofing, top natural tiles laid

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Drain channel with wound-in waterproofing for protection from the wind. To keep the wind was blowing the rain onto the wall.

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Unfortunately I cannot upload more photos. Anyone interested can send email!

After looking at the pleadings from both the plaintiff and the defendant I would find judgement is in the defendants favour on the written and photographic evidence produced to the members of this forum so far. I will now rise for luncheon as I hear a new buffet is opening in Tortosa today.Court rise back at ..........?  ::)

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Hmmm, I don't like getting drawn into arguments but I kind of have to say something in response to the various pics and comments by Maxwell. Contrary to the photo's he has posted not much of his 'work' was satisfactory. I'd had several quotes from several builders prior to employing this guy, none of which were as expensive as he says. But, based on  all of his claims to being a builder, and his pics on his laptop, AND his quote, I employed him. ALL of my previous quotes included removing the wall as it was on top of tiles which had been fixed with yeso. As for his welding skills, most of the finished welds could be broken by a slight push. The osb boards are t&g but none of the t&g's are fitted properly. He broke my window sills, his cement crumbled and there are many concrete blocks with NO cement at all. Notice too that the blocks have been put on upside down.
Re: My Welsh pants, well i'm proud of that Dragon and don't mind showing them off. However, and I won't publish any pics, this 'experienced builder' does like to parade a building site in his underwear and moccasins, neither of which are steel toecapped!
This has become rather farcical now and I think, even though he speaks English, he doesn't actually understand much of it. I attribute this as the main reason for him not doing a good and fair job and for not realising that the wall removal was a clearly stated priority for me. Several people saw his 'finished' roof, not one of those people thought it was finished, not one thought that the work was satisfactory.
It's a pity it's come to this, I would never have disclosed his name publicly and I wanted only to prevent others from wasting their monies on his services. That's all from me.
:'(

A couple of pics that Maxwell didn't want publicised, showing the true "quality" of the 'finished' roof. Enjoy!

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I can not speak for Maxwell's command of English in general, but there does seem to be some confusion between the meaning of Slander and Libel...
(Although to be fair he may have been slandered as well, and I just don't know about it...)

hhmunro wrote on Sep 19^th, 2014 at 11:30pm:

I can not speak for Maxwell's command of English in general, but there does seem to be some confusion between the meaning of Slander and Libel... (Although to be fair he may have been slandered as well, and I just don't know about it...)

1  Defamation is split between libel and slander. Something spoken or written which lowers others' opinion of a person.

The defamation must be said in front of a third party for corroboration. The statement must be untrue otherwise it is not defamation.

What is defamation

Definition of defamation

2  This is a false statement made by one person about another which involves some imputation (accusation) which discredits that person's character, reputation or credit worthiness. A defamatory statement must be communicated to at least one person other than the subject of the statement. It can be communicated by, for example, spoken or written words, or by photographs, cartoons or effigies. In other words it can be communicated in any way in which meaning can be conveyed.

Difference between libel and slander

3  If a defamatory statement is spoken the defamation is slander. If it is written, it is libel. In addition libel also includes statements broadcast on terrestrial, cable or satellite television, on video, on film and possibly E-Mail bulletin boards. In the rest of this item the term defamation is used to cover both situations unless indicated otherwise.

4  Generally libel is considered as more serious than slander because of the enduring nature of the statement and consequently libel actions are more common than slander actions.

Statements which are likely to be defamatory

5  There is no easy way of telling what is or is not defamatory and it is really up to the courts to decide whether a particular statement is defamatory or not, taking into account the particular context and nature of the statement.

6  In general, any statement which tends to lower the reputation of the person referred to in the estimation of reasonable people is defamatory. It is worth noting that a statement which at first sight is quite harmless may, nevertheless, have a defamatory meaning because of the circumstances in which it is made. That may be because those to whom the statement is made have a special knowledge of particular facts. The statement is then defamatory by innuendo.

7  The list below gives some idea of the various kinds of statements which in the past the courts have considered to be defamatory. You should remember that this list is not exhaustive but simply illustrative. For example, statements which imply that a person is:-

    unfit for her/his particular job or occupation
    a criminal
    insane
    a thief or dishonest
    a drunkard or excessive drinker
    immoral or sexually immoral
    insolvent or bankrupt

8  In certain circumstances, the most outrageously defamatory comments, true or not, may be repeated, provided they are quoted accurately and fairly. This is because they are protected by absolute privilege and the originator of the statement cannot be sued. This applies to, for example:-

    contemporaneous reports in a newspaper, radio or television of judicial proceedings
    reports of what was said in the States
    quotations from or reprints of States (parliamentary) papers.

9  Some other statements are protected by qualified privilege. This covers statements which are published in, for example, reports of public meetings or non contemporaneous court reports. They may be repeated even if they are false as long as they are accurate and not made out of malice. This also applies to statements made in references and testimonials - see paragraph 10.

Defamation in references and testimonials

10 References which pass from one employer to another are covered by what is known as qualified privilege. This means that an employer can probably say what s/he likes about an employee. However s/he must not:-

    maliciously make false statements
    negligently make a wrong statement. An employer giving a reference about an employee owes her/him a duty of care. This means the employer could be sued for negligence if the reference/testimonial contains inaccuracies which result in the employee suffering a loss.

E-mails and the Internet

11 There has been a recent judgement in the UK that derogatory e-mails can be considered libellous and the employer on whose computer system the libel was e-mailed can be considered to be legally responsible.

12 Owners of Internet sites which contain information posted by the public are responsible for the content. An Internet Service Provider (Demon) in the UK was successfully sued for not removing libellous material when repeatedly asked to do so by the person being libelled.

Action

13 Legal action through a solicitor or advocate. Legal Aid is NOT available for such cases.

14 Person initially could write a letter to the person causing trouble and ask for it to stop otherwise legal action would be instituted.

Bunter.  Do you have an e-book edition of Archbold?  It's published by Sweet & (ironically) Maxwell.

Sounds as though you worked in the legal profession in some capacity Bunter! although this is all well and good , we are in Spain and believe me they make their own laws up as the court cases progress , how do I know because I have been through it on a 2 year case . Only if you take Spain to the eu and you could be 5 years in the waiting with all the back log .... life is too short, best as you said sort it out personally and not involve lawyers.

Things of this nature are best sorted out face to face rather than on an open forum

I agree Robo you are correct.

Michael I do not have an e copy but the hard copy's make excellent door stops. The e-copy is about four hundred quid but you do get the supplements so it's always up to date. (Same as the hard copy) However the learned Judge would not take kindly to you handing him/Her your laptop every time you tried to make a legal point. I mean it sounds much better if you all have your hard copies (No Wifi probs) and you can point his/her honour to the correct page/line of the legal argument. E Copies are normally just kept in tandem with the hard copy when writing up a brief they are quicker to search.

Catalanboy. Spain is somewhat the same as the UK I understand what your saying with regards Defamation in Spain..In Spain, the crime of calumny (Article 205 of the Penal Code) consists of offending one's reputation knowing the falsity of the offence, or with a reckless contempt for truth. Penalties for cases with publicity are imprisonment from six months to two years or a fine of 12 to 24 months-fine, and for other cases only a fine of 6 to 12 months-fine (Article 206). Additionally, the crime of injury (Article 208 of the Penal Code) consists of hurting someone's dignity, depreciating his reputation or injuring his self-esteem, and is only applicable if the offence, by its nature, effects and circumstances, is considered by the general public as strong. Injury has a penalty of fine from 3 to 7 months-fine, or from 6 to 14 months-fine when it's strong and with publicity. According to Article 216, an additional penalty to calumny or injury may be imposed by the judge, determining the publication of the judicial decision (in a newspaper) at the expenses of the defamer.

This post is not unlike the estate agent a few weeks ago. I am sure people can make their own judgement with regards having work done or not. Lets talk about nosebag and nice bottles of chilled Chateau St Baillon by the pool.  :D :D :D :D

Oh well. Seems none of you like to be forewarned before parting with your money. I simply wanted to let others know that the claims by this guy fall somewhat short in reality. He was advised by my local consumer advice person that if he claims to be a builder, whether registered or not, he should complete the work to a satisfactory standard.
The consumer advice chap saw video clips and photographs of the ´finished´job and told him to go back to my house and put it right. When he came to my house he just wanted to realign a couple of tiles and put silicon everywhere, not good enough!!
Whether he's defamed or not, photographs, videos and witnesses all prove the inadequacy of his ´professional´ work standard. So many Brits, and other nationalities, are constantly losing money to everyone that claims to be a builder, from bus drivers to bank managers, when they get here they're all builders.
Conversation over then, i've given fair warning and leave it to potential customers to deal with later. :(

"Seems none of you like to be forewarned" Mate, people on this forum are not stupid.

wrote on Sep 25^th, 2014 at 12:17am:

"Seems none of you like to be forewarned" Mate, people on this forum are not stupid.

Smidge will you be told about making statements, I am sorry to have to do this to you my friend BUT PROVE IT.....
Yours a now very saddened Bulldog.

I know smidge and he definitely is not stupid,  i cant speak for the rest of us though

Thanks Robo! Bulldog I hope you are not one of these people who were in the dock recently for hijacking peoples threads.  >:(

wrote on Sep 25^th, 2014 at 11:26pm:

Thanks Robo! Bulldog I hope you are not one of these people who were in the dock recently for hijacking peoples threads.  >:(

Thanks for your concern Smidge but all my threads come from Marks and Sparks and not from the docks well except for the suit,shoes and a few shirts but I must admit I did get a few items from a hijacked hearse if this is what you are referring too.
Yours a well dressed Bulldog.

I am out of words BD. :D

When you bunch of divs have finished attempting to hijack my post, maybe you'd like to check out the entire range of pics I took of this Ukranian ´builders´work. Then gob off if you still want to, but elsewhere please!! It is, and will continue to be, my personal opinion that this dude cannot do what he says and will end up just taking ones money and leaving a mess. The link to the file of pics is here:
https://app.box.com/s/qtfaac2ggdpjbax8clsz

This is a rar file so you may wish to scan first and there´s no password needed. >:(

You may call me a div if you like but im not daft enough to pay a cowboy builder

Some people are and can be 'taken in', anywhere in the World.
There are people who tell a good story and convince the customers, that they offer a good service, in whatever type of business they choose.
Happening every day of the week!

zzzzzzzzzzzz

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robo, I also am not daft enough to pay a cowboy builder. However, if a ´builder´shows lots of pictures and videos of his work, and doesn´t wear a stetson or ride a horse....How does one identify if he is a cowboy?
Anyone, and I mean anyone, can be conned by a conman and, as stated, i'm not sure if the ´builder´is a conman but it´s my opinion that he can´t build properly.
If you feel I refer to you personally as a div, then maybe you should stop participating in the childish hijacking of serious threads. People can benefit from being warned in advance.

I think you have made your point long before your thread started to get highjacked as you call it and before you started getting personal with your name calling

"People can benefit from being warned in advance."
If that is your motivation thank you very much. However your recent contributions are taking away from the weight of your warning as people wonder who maybe in the wrong. I mean if total strangers on this forum are being called names and disrespected for very little, what did your builder have to put up with,? maybe he is not such a bad guy after all.

sutgesdad wrote on Oct 1^st, 2014 at 4:48pm:

When you bunch of divs have finished attempting to hijack my post, maybe you'd like to check out the entire range of pics I took of this Ukranian ´builders´work. Then gob off if you still want to, but elsewhere please!! It is, and will continue to be, my personal opinion that this dude cannot do what he says and will end up just taking ones money and leaving a mess. The link to the file of pics is here: https://app.box.com/s/qtfaac2ggdpjbax8clsz This is a rar file so you may wish to scan first and there´s no password needed. >:(

Congratulations sutgesdad, it gives me great pleasure to inform you that after an in depth study of this thread by the gentle folks Gobby Divs committee it was concluded that you have all the qualities needed to be honoured with the title president Div, it was also felt with the problems you have had with so called cowboys at no cost to yourself we will present you with the very informative book HOW THE WEST WAS BUILT. by the famous A.Cowboy.
Just a little advice if you would indulge an old div the following may help.
1. If the builder arrives with more mastic than building blocks, be wary,
2. If he asks you how to build it, be wary.
3. If you still employ him and then see his photography is far superior to his building works, be wary,
Remember that if you feel the need to rebuke fellow forum members do it with a smile upon your face, as a frown takes more effort and is not welcomed. A kind word of correction is more acceptable than an insult, then to let a cowboy walk away with so much of your money and sense of humour is as they say in the Balkans piss pot stupid.
Yours, the retiring Gobby Div President Bulldog. All the best for your coming year.      

Having read this thread through from beginning to end I am very sympathetic with sutgesdad's view of this forum, one of whose purposes has always been to offer help and advice to people who are new to the area.  The stupid 'banter' going on on this thread really isn't going to encourage anyone to take this forum in the slightest bit seriously.

On the other hand it might stop threads from being pushed to far then insulting people

I feel sutgesdad has made the point regarding the builder (for which thankyou for airing your views).Perhaps the Banter may have gone a little bit too far in this particular thread,but Banter is also good for this Forum.Lets not stop laughing.

I have no problem with banter. But there is a time and place.

Come on now Pondgirl lighten up, even sutgesdad has time for a bit of banter "doesn´t wear a stetson or ride a horse." and he is the wronged one.

wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 2:05pm:

Having read this thread through from beginning to end I am very sympathetic with sutgesdad's view of this forum, one of whose purposes has always been to offer help and advice to people who are new to the area.  The stupid 'banter' going on on this thread really isn't going to encourage anyone to take this forum in the slightest bit seriously.

oh my! pondgirl,i do agree with what you are saying   :) now that must be a one off. ;D things on here do get past a joke some times .

wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 1:54pm:

wrote on Oct 4th, 2014 at 2:05pm: Having read this thread through from beginning to end I am very sympathetic with sutgesdad's view of this forum, one of whose purposes has always been to offer help and advice to people who are new to the area.  The stupid 'banter' going on on this thread really isn't going to encourage anyone to take this forum in the slightest bit seriously. oh my! pondgirl,i do agree with what you are saying   :) now that must be a one off. ;D things on here do get past a joke some times .

WELL SAID NEN,
I must agree with you.





YOU DO NOT OFTEN AGREE WITH PONDGIRL.
I still luv you both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yours an everloving Bulldog.

Enough said I think.   :)

8-)