Hi All,
I am new to this forum - it's been very interesting to read and learn about local topics.

I am about to proceed with the purchase of a 15Ha finca in the Mora/Garcia area. On the land there is a small (2 bed) house and a large shed.

I am in email contact with a lawyer in Tarragona (who handled the previous sale of the finca).

I am trying to establish if the little house is legal as a dwelling. (I don't expect the shed to be anything other than a legal almacen.)

The lawyer has emailed :

"The two buildings were registered with an Archquitect's certificate confirming they were built more than six years ago (in 2003).
When the certificate was done, there was no ilegality on the buildings, so they were able to legalize.
For living in the buildings, they have to be habitable (bathroom, kitchen, rooms...).
For living in the biggest (shed), you should have to apply for permission from the Town Hall and refurbish it.
This can be complicated if in the same property there is a second house."

I have asked a couple more times 'is the small house legal to live in' but we seem to go round in circles...

Is there a more definite question I should ask to know for sure that I can legally live in the small house permanently?

Thanks
Andy

Hi Andy,

Ask the laywer for a copy of the nota simple (he must have one if he handled the previous sale). In the nota simple you will find a description of the buildings.

If he had the buildings legalized in 2003 there is not only made a certificate by an architect, but also a new escritura with the "declaration de obra nueva" to register the buildings in the registro de la propiedad. In this document there also is a description of the buildings.

Hope this helps,
Mark

We were told by one of  the hierarchy of the local village council that P/P would be needed to build a swimming pool,he then said however, just build it and should there be any forest fires then we could allow the bombadiers to use the water in it.....I'm sure with a bit of lateral thinking Spanish logic could prevail in other cases

At the end of the day, do most people really want to go though this maybe/cant/maybe can/is it an almacen/ or can we live in it/ or is it illegal/ legal................and before anyone says........Jools is selling property in Aragon where you can pretty much build what you want, we have more than enough clients who have done their own research before they get ripped off.

I have been there, as so have many people, where they have been told a "shit load" of lies, that you can build an "almacen" of 40 m2" then add on to it year on, year out, untill it has been ther for six years until it is legal...................six years is a long time to be looking over your shoudler, and believe me the authorities are getting more vigilant.......................ask the the people around the Gandesa area, where they follow every concrete mixer to see where it is going!!!!.   And i am sure this practise will continue to other areas.

I wouldn't want any one to go through what i did, read my blog from the beginning, i dont think i can post it on here, but if you send me a PM i will send you the link.

For Mercedes and me, my Spanish business partner, it is very interesting to see, just how many Catalan estate agents are now trying to sell properties over the border and in to Aragon, but they dont know the exact legal requirements as to how much land is required in each village to build. Most villages have their own little "quirky" rules and regulations.

For example, quite recently, we had a client from Barcelona, she was English, but spoke perfect Spanish, and is actually a translator for many large companies in Spain and the UK, she obviously thought she could buy a better deal direct from a local person in a bar. She purchased a finca near La Fresneda in the Matarrana region, it was 3 hectares, which exceeds any local requirements on land. But, what she didn't realise was the fact that it was in a protected area, and basically she couldn't build a garden shed, we could have told her that, but she didn't ask!

Just be careful out there.

If you are like me, and you are ploughing all your life savings/sale of a property in the UK/life pension or similar in to your Spanish dream, think twice and do your homework, and dont listen to what the estate agents tell you.

I await the negative feedback in anticipation.

Jools  

Who is your solicitor working for? Yes, you have answered your own question. You are buying a building but as it currently stands it does not sound as if you can legally permanently live in it. Perhaps you would be better off approaching the local ajuntamiento responsible for your house and asking what the possibilities are? Has your solicitor checked that the finca is not in a protected area, such as a national park? If it is you should steer well clear.

Just to clarify -

I want to determine the legal status of the 2 buldings before I pay any money (either to the vendor or the solicitor) - so I have not instructed  the solicitor yet.

I initially questioned the agent for some proof of what I am about to buy and he involved the solicitor (who handled the previous sale).

Another (private) message advised me that the buildings are probably legal (ie wont be knocked down) but this doesnt necessarily indicate you can legally live there 365 days a year.

Andy

This looks like a total nightmare...

Just to add my bit, friends of mine who work in La Caixa have commented on this general theme that whilst up till now any building that had been built and not demolished by the council could indeed be legalised now the situation is one of zero tolerance.  Local councils may tolerate this and even give you the nod to go ahead with it but the final legalisation comes from Tarragona and they have apparently decided that after having completed all the POUM type plans around here nothing will get this legalisation from now on, even if the local council wants it.

YOu have to be so careful with all of this.  A non legal house whilst suitable for living has no legal standing in the event of the council building roads etc and also won't qualify for a mortgage if you want to re sell it and the buyers need one.

Hi Andy!

Yes, a minefield!
If you ve got cash to spare,go for it!
The laws regarding building here ,are so . . .
If you ve the spare cash , its worth the gamble!
An illegal build,with mortgage ,sold recently here in the Tortosa region.
Things are gonna change!
Good luck.