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 25 Newbie with some dumb questions! (Read 12064 times)
sleeper
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Newbie with some dumb questions!
Jan 18th, 2011 at 4:51pm
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Hi
I am looking to buy a small place in this area (near Ginestar) shortly, but I have never bought overseas before and I have a million and one questions and wondered if you guys and gals could help me. If I start with a few basic questions I am sure there will be many more to follow lol. We intend to use it as a holiday home for the time being and eventually retire to it. Anyway firstly the property I am looking at is about 4 years old and semi rural.
I suppose a lot of it is pointing me in the right direction. Firstly I have read (about 18 months ago) about demolition orders being used in the Ginestar area, are there any further developments on this front?
Secondly could anyone recommend a good English speaking solicitor?
Having trawled the net looking for used car dealers (4x4) without success, could you recommend a website please.
Finally for the moment, there was talk by a different estate agent, of black and white money when purchasing a property. Could someone explain if this is the ‘norm’ or should it be avoided?
Many thanks for now. 
  
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Bigyin
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #1 - Jan 18th, 2011 at 6:35pm
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Just to clarify.
"We intend to use it as a holiday home for the time being and eventually retire to it. Anyway firstly the property I am looking at is about 4 years old and semi rural."
Are you saying that you have actually identified a particular property ?  If so, was it offered by a local Estate Agent ?  The most important first step is to check the bona fides of the agent.  Once you are sure about that and also the classification and legality of the place you're looking at, I'm sure some of the members on here can help with advice on the next steps.
Happy for anyone else to jump in here.
  

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sleeper
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #2 - Jan 18th, 2011 at 7:06pm
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Bigyin wrote on Jan 18th, 2011 at 6:35pm:
Just to clarify.
"We intend to use it as a holiday home for the time being and eventually retire to it. Anyway firstly the property I am looking at is about 4 years old and semi rural."
Are you saying that you have actually identified a particular property ?  If so, was it offered by a local Estate Agent ?  The most important first step is to check the bona fides of the agent.  Once you are sure about that and also the classification and legality of the place you're looking at, I'm sure some of the members on here can help with advice on the next steps.
Happy for anyone else to jump in here.


Hi Bigyin, yes we have indentified a specific property and it was shown to us by an estate agent. How would I go about checking the classification and legality of the place.

Thanks
  
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Ritaratbag
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #3 - Jan 18th, 2011 at 7:14pm
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I can recommend a really good English speaking solicitor, but he is based in Tarragona. Comes out to Tortosa area sometimes if needed.
He is called Ton Battle, Tel: 977218633.
  
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Nobrot
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #4 - Jan 18th, 2011 at 7:15pm
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The words 'lamb' and 'slaughter' spring to mind.Be very careful.
In my opinion ( for what it may be worth....)
Have you looked anywhere other than Ginestar...??
Avoid estate agents like the plague unless the are HIGHLY recommended (most of the dodgy ones have packed up by now and returned to Blighty or somewhere)
Choose your own solicitor,not one recommended by an agent,there are a couple of good ones in the area.
Think of buying a 4x4 in the UK and taking over.It will work out much cheaper.
Black and white money is the way it is.
  
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fatphil
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #5 - Jan 18th, 2011 at 7:49pm
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Do not beleive any Estate agent,registered or not.
Some estate agents are still trying to tell buyers they do not nead a Cedula to live full time, in a rural property !
My opinion is DO NOT buy in cataloonya,as you will probably end up with a very expensive Allotment.
  
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Nigel
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #6 - Jan 18th, 2011 at 8:51pm
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If you can get the Parcela and Poligono numbers you can do a bit of research yourself.
Go here:
https://www1.sedecatastro.gob.es/OVCFrames.aspx?TIPO=CONSULTA
and get the details, then GO TO THE ADJUNTAMENT and ask them the classification/legality of living there or if it's just a modernised tool shed. Take someone who speaks Spanish if your language skills aren't up to it.

Nigel
  
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jools
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #7 - Jan 18th, 2011 at 10:03pm
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I will go with pretty much everything that has been said previously, especially about being careful buying in Catalunya (there are very very few legally built viviendas with a cedula)
Also agree about the Lawyer Ton Battle, he actually worked for some clients of ours and he was super efficient and very thorough and asked all the right questions and more besides(and I'm an agent.... Roll Eyes

I wish you the very best of luck, sincerely.
Jools
« Last Edit: Jan 19th, 2011 at 6:16pm by »  
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hazelnut
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #8 - Jan 19th, 2011 at 8:39am
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Its never Dumb to ask questions the more you ask the better informed you become!! and hopefully you won't end up buying a pig in a poke, unless you want one of course

Never trust an estate agent they are working for the seller!!
Get your own solicitor!!
Don't buy without a Cedula unless you want to camp in a barn!!
There are people selling who will do all white money!!
Don't believe anyone who says water and electricity close by and easily obtained!!
If you can't find evidence on the esquitura of the words vivienda don't buy!!
And look for the date of construction before 1984!!
Unless of course it has legal permissions to build very rare!!

Mind you as Jools says you will probably ignore everything you have been told and buy with your heart instead of your head

Ahh well Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
  
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bruixot
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #9 - Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:31am
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My two pennies worth is that while I am very very happy having lived here for six years if I could do the whole thing over again I would be in Aragon for the safety of permissions and no daft stuff like cedulas etc.
Bruixot
  
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sleeper
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #10 - Jan 19th, 2011 at 1:25pm
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Thanks for all your answers folks, I will try and condense some of the questions you have asked me into an abbreviated version.

The agent is definitely not Dutch, but was very helpful and put no pressure on us whatsoever and answered all our questions clearly. I will gladly PM their name to anyone who is interested or thinks they could recommend them, but I don’t think it’s right to put their name on an open forum.

The property is about 4 years old and has never been lived in.

Thanks for the recommendation of a solicitor, looks like Ton Battle is the man.

We did look at another area Riba Roja D’Ebre but found nothing suitable.

‘Lambs to the slaughter’ hopefully not lol.

So black and white money is the way it is, that’s fine by me.

There is agricultural water to the property and solar panels for the electric.

‘Buy with heart and not head’  lol………. Never, that’s why I have all the questions.

Thanks again.
  
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sleeper
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #11 - Jan 19th, 2011 at 1:30pm
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Apologies to the people who have sent me PM's, apparently I can't reply until I have reached 10 posts, sorry.  Embarrassed
  
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lazydaze
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #12 - Jan 19th, 2011 at 4:34pm
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Be very carefull buying in Catalunya and be wary of the friendly Agents that will tell you what you want to hear not what you need to know. Check the Escatura (similar to UK Deeds) you may find that it only has the land on it and not a building. If it has a building I am 99% sure that it will just be an Almacen and not a Casa.  The Ajuntament should be able to tell you if it is a property with a problem.

You could also check the BOP Bulletins
go to https://www.diputaciodetarragona.cat/ebop/
On the left side BOP del dia click on e-sumari then click Historic 2009
On the next page where is says Emissor continue as follows
Desplegueu - Click AMINISTRACIO LOCAL
next Click  AJUNTAMENTS DE LA PROVINCIA DE TARRAGONA
next Click  AJUNTAMENT DE GINESTAR
At the bottom click Accptar

This will list all the insecrcions for the year 2009 from the Ginestar Ajuntament - CADUCITAT DE LA LLICENCIA translates as building licence has been revoked - just see how many this has happend to in Ginestar and you will also see a lot of the names are British.  You can follow the same proceedure for 2010.
This happend because the previous Mayor was giving out illegal licences allowing people to build houses with a Almacen (BARN) licence.
Make sure you can legally live in the property you are thinking about buying and if it does not have a Cedula you will not be able to sell it on as a legal dwelling.

If you know the Poligon and Parcela number you can also look at it on Goolzoom and the Catastro number will tell you if it is registered as having a building on the land (this is different to the Escatura - which you should also make sure it is registered on)  It may come up as RESIDENCIAL but if you click on the corresponding number it will just give the surface area of the building and will list it as INDUSTRIAL.

This does not mean it is a residencial building. 

Take no notice when you are told you do not need a solicitor it may be the best money you spend as they should be able to find out the exact legallity of the building and the land.
Hope this has not confused you too much.   Huh
  
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jools
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #13 - Jan 19th, 2011 at 6:01pm
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What an excellent website, but what ever happened to data protection. I've just looked through years of applications (or people who said they had applied.... Roll Eyes in all kinds of villages.

You must really listen to this fact about Ginestar, it's absolutely true, but if you get a decent Lawyer they will point you in the correct direction.
Jools
  
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sleeper
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Re: Newbie with some dumb questions!
Reply #14 - Jan 19th, 2011 at 6:59pm
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Wow, that is certainly an eye opener Lazydaze, thank you.

I understand the property I am looking at, is as you say licensed as an Almacen but ‘under the old laws’. Is this the same case as those on the list?

Do you know what happens when the licenses are revoked, do they have to be demolished or what?

I am not trying to convince myself here(honestly), but why is it such a problem, surely it can only be good for the villages. Surely increasing the population of a village can only be a good thing. Or am I being very naïve and missing the point?
  
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