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reforming Casita on Finca? (Read 5169 times)
lekin
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reforming Casita on Finca?
Jan 5th, 2008 at 2:43pm
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Hello all,

am new to the forum, very informative , thanks.

I have been looking to buy a small casita of 20 to 30m2 on a more or less 20.000 m2 finca in the Tortosa area. We would use it not as a home all year round, but still would be there at time for several months.

A spanish man we met, is restoring his casita (similar in size to what we are looking for) without permission. Says one is allowed to restore and enlarge a casita by 20%?? Still he is nervous about his project and happy to finish soon as laws seem to become stricter.

I however would prefer to restore it with permisson.
What would be the best way to go about?

What the house needs:
Most probably nesserary to fix the roof and maybe even some of the walls. For us to make a casita livable, we would install solar electricity, a wood-stove and a some kind of a small septic tank/ compost toilet.

What we would like to do (but not absolutely nessecary, is to raise the roof to create an extra room and/ or extending the existing walls (enlarging footprint).

Now this seems from all I read here very difficult if not impossible. But what of our plans would be possible? I you have any tips for us, I would be very thankful.
  
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William of Orange
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Re: reforming Casita on Finca?
Reply #1 - Jan 6th, 2008 at 2:03am
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Welcome, Lekin.... it sounds as if you have a quite specific property in mind. with the detail you've provided. Any restoration with permissions will almost guarantee you will need an architect to provide the plans for said restoration. Spain and its Adjuntaments have  woken  up to liability and it isn't going to be thiers. Engineers plans are not a problem but add time to the process and don't come with a guarantee of a pass. I submitted two plans for an extension to my Almacen and a bolsa with windturbine. via an architect , extension failed but bolsa was granted but it took 11months. It seems from the grapevine in my area Freginals people are having more success buying land with sufficient area with no building and applying for a 60 - 80 m2 Almacen. But this can vary for area to area and the side the mayor got out of bed. Im reliably informed that in Ginestar the new Mayor has put a blanket ban of any new builds for the moment in what was a easy area in the past for legal permissions. So do your homework speak with the locals  buyer beware.

B4 I touch illegal or sin permissions, and get a mouthful about the British bringing  the community into disrespect , the Spanish are no better or worse in extending here and adding a bit there. Im unaware of the 20 % rule but its one of many variations on a theme that I have heard. If this is an annual allowance with compound interest it would only take 10 years or so to double your property footprint  Roll Eyes Hmmm  Undecided

So sin permissions IMHO.... no guarantees or hand holding or the bloke who said its OK in the pub is going to help if you get a visit and Jobsworth applys the law. Im not saying dont do it but at worst be realistic of a worse case senario and can u afford to have  it stopped or dismantelled. Again IMHO examples will be made sooner than later but they will probably start with someone really taking the p..s !  Renovating back to spec an existing building does need permissions but having the law to stop it or knock it down with out permissions is probably unlkely and a grey area.

I probably doubt and I personally know of no one who hasn't added a porch here or a shaded terrace there or a genny shed , dog kennels, wood store, swimming pool aka bolsa/cistina , bread oven or patio or intends to do so without asking for permission. No doubt someone will say I have Im totally legally and always will be . Well bully for them and I hope the Guardian is still a riviting read, but put things into perspective and do the maths, but no one will underwrite sin permissions like all of us you pays yor money you takes your chance !

Research and local advice and real life stories in your area of choice is where to start. HTH. Just looking for my flax jacket  Wink. WoO
  
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Pondgirl
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Re: reforming Casita on Finca?
Reply #2 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 6:28pm
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My best advice would be to use a solicitor and make it a condition of purchase that planning permission to restore to your requirements is granted before any more than a deposit is handed over.  You could try talking to the relevant Adjuntament beforehand to find out what they are allowing if you want to save on solicitors fees.
  
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PaulH
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Re: reforming Casita on Finca?
Reply #3 - Jan 8th, 2008 at 11:33am
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Good luck with your project Lekin. I am awaiting a building permit from Tortosa for land without any building on it next to my Finca. The architect said Tortosa was still granting permits (Oct.07) but other areas not so. Max. size is 50sq metres with a height of 5m. (land is 1.5ha) & must be built to look like an almacen for his final photos, then we make into a casita. 3/4 months wait for permit. Since then I found out it would have been cheaper to employ an agricultural engineer (1k€) than architect (3k€) but latter might have more clout(?).
Another trick is to put a temporary bathroom in (not plumbed) before architect/engineer makes his intial report therefore giving the impression a bathroom existed already.
My casita was 40 sq m. & is now 92, our architect made a certificate (200€) stating before & after, photos etc & date of construction being finished. 6 years from this date means I can make legal providing the laws don't change.
Regards Paul
  
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jools
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Re: reforming Casita on Finca?
Reply #4 - Jan 9th, 2008 at 12:34am
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Is it really worth all of this trouble and worry, to basically get "illegal" planning permission, when a regional Architect looks the other way.............................and does anyone really believe that a fully trained Spanish Architect can be fooled in to believing that there is a "pretend" bathroom in an Almacen....................................POR FAVOR/SI US PLAU

These people go to University for a long time and then work out in the field as well, before being "allowed" to practise "solo"

Lets give them a little respect and credit here please, this is Spain not Guatemala...........................but I'm sure all of this has been said before.
  
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briand6868
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Re: reforming Casita on Finca?
Reply #5 - Mar 16th, 2009 at 9:08pm
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Hello All,
           My parents have a plot .75 hect off the old El Perello/Tortosa rd in Tortosa ajuntament with a small derelict casa on it.Does anyone know the current rules on reforming it to a holiday home standard keeping to the original footprint.
                                                                                        Regards,
                                                                                                    briand
  
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briand6868
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Re: reforming Casita on Finca?
Reply #6 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:37pm
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Hi, Just checked on my parents and there is a casits registered on the land if this makes any difference to planning/reforming.
                   ta,briand
  
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nicson
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Re: reforming Casita on Finca?
Reply #7 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 11:52pm
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Hi Lekin. Just out of interest, have you actually located the property that you would like? If you are still looking, due to a change in our circumstances, we may well be looking to sell our, as yet, unrenovated 2 room casa located just outside L'Ampolla.  Deeds actually state casa on land - which is a good starting point from which to work. If you do have an interest just send us an e mail at snbache@yahoo.co.uk.  In any case, best of luck with your search.
Nicson
  
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