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 25 Cedula de Habitabilidad (Read 78643 times)
hazelnut
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #135 - Sep 4th, 2010 at 2:57pm
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Hi fatphil sorry but at this time of year you have to put up with the od Fiesta lasting till 7:00am in the morning
  
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Greg
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #136 - Oct 5th, 2010 at 9:49am
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Latest update from Mark Smithson at the British Consulate below:

Thanks for your email. Andrew Gwatkin, Consul General, Manuel Vallve and Alexandra Brown, from the Madrid Consulate-General attended a meeting on 23rd September with Mrs Padrals and Mr Pere Solà i Busquets, Director General at the Direcció General d'Urbanisme.  We provided a summary of where we had got to in the previous meeting with Mrs Padrals and of how the cedula de habitabilidad issues are affecting British citzens who followed all the correct procedures when purchasing property in Catalunya, but now find they are unable to sell.

Mr Pere Solà emphasised that the difficulties Britons are currently encountering with the habitation certificate were neither foreseen nor intentional and he expressed his concern at both the number of Britons and geographical areas affected.  It was agreed that we would provide Mr Pere Solà with a map of the areas with Britons affected by the habitation certificate decree and that he would then liaise with the local town halls of the areas involved for further information.   

We will be in touch when we have further information from the Direcció General d'Urbanisme on how this is progressing.

I wouldn't hold your breath for any change to the current situation if you want to sell which is essentially one of two options for people with vivienda's:
1) Provide original building licence or prove the house was built before 1984
2) Hope you can find a buyer who is willing to change Vivienda to a description that doesn't need a cedula on the escritura, eg rural building

One thing I have found out recently is that Camarles Town Hall are willing to lie about the age of a property in order to get the cedula. Hopefully others will follow but I haven't heard of anywhere else doing this yet.
  
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JamJarChris
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #137 - Oct 6th, 2010 at 11:02am
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Quote:
One thing I have found out recently is that Camarles Town Hall are willing to lie about the age of a property in order to get the cedula. Hopefully others will follow but I haven't heard of anywhere else doing this yet.


Whilst helpful, is it wise to put this on a public forum?
Just a thought  Undecided
  

quod ambit, redit
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Greg
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #138 - Oct 6th, 2010 at 12:33pm
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I think that the most important thing is to highlight what positive steps are being made by town halls to help people living in those areas with the cedula situation.  This law is causing many people huge problems, it contravenes both Spanish and EU law and if a town hall is actually willing to behave in a sensible way to get round it I think it's worth mentioning.

Maybe I should have said 'being creative' instead of lying - but it's what government, law, tax, employment, etc, etc in Spain is built on.

I also think that at least in the short term this is exactly what other town halls and architects (in the form of issuing 'creative' certificates of antiquity) will start doing.
  
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JamJarChris
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #139 - Oct 6th, 2010 at 12:37pm
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Grin Creative I like
Very good and fair point
  

quod ambit, redit
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fatphil
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #140 - Oct 6th, 2010 at 3:00pm
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My opinion is it shows the depths the authorities will go to,but surely in the long term it will also be creating more problems ?
But then this is how the Catalooyians have allways preffered to do things and they will never change !
  
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Michael
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #141 - Oct 7th, 2010 at 8:36pm
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I hope the 'creative' solution does not come back to haunt people.  It seems that certain 'higher authorities' here have a track record of overturning decisions they don't like even if this means retrospective legislation or more simplistically deciding that those who authorised things were in no position so to do.
  
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eden
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #142 - Oct 14th, 2010 at 11:30am
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    In the local paper

OpenID:    |    10:30 | Wednesday, 13 October 2010       diaridetarragona.com    PortadasExtrasTARRAGONA REUS COSTA CAMP EBRO ECONOMY PANORAMA MAGAZINE SPORTS CASTLES OPINION ClasificadosPlanning produces clear regulations to curb the illegal houses
The Government is currently on the table at around 400 infringement proceedings for construction of urban houses in rural areas of the Terres de l'Ebre.0COMENTARIO         Share                John Joseph Carot | 10/10/2010 20:00 The Ministry of Public Works of the Government has drafted a proposal for legislation to stop the construction of buildings on rural land in the municipalities of Terres de l'Ebre. An urban phenomenon, "popular" that reached its greatest heights with the construction boom. These constructions are illegal or that do not fit properly in the planning regulations as the most common case of a person who obtains a license for a small building to store tools in the field but in time, s 'has just become a second home.

Currently, the general direction of the Government Planning has on the table at around 400 infringement proceedings for construction of urban houses in rural areas of the Terres de l'Ebre.

The proposed new legislation, which was presented at the last meeting of the Town Planning Committee of the Lands of the Ebro, was sent to all municipalities and is expected to enter into force three months after the procedure than concerned.

In the new regulations, Planning regulates four types of construction on rural land. From less to more surface area, is the first tool shed of 20 square meters at most and a gateway. It is the goal of a construction which will store tools and products field and require a minimum of 2,000 square meters of land to build it. Secondly, is the Maset, 40 square meters at most, with space for equipment and another for food, as well as a dependence isolated to pesticides. It will build on the ground floor and mezzanine with a maximum of 4.30 meters and have a porch six feet square, but in no case of fences. The requirement for this building is a building of 10,000 square meters, if irrigated, or 30,000 if it is dry.

Thirdly, the new regulations governing the storage, with a maximum of 500 square meters and employed a ceiling of 800. They may be for leisure and the surface is required for one hectare irrigated and 4.5 in the case of dry land. Finally, they are farms, covered with one or two waters and, on the 500 square meters, will require permission from the Planning Commission of Terres de l'Ebre.

All promoters aqustes constructions must necessarily prove to be wholly or partly engaged in agriculture, so there are only requirirà Declaration Agricultural (DUN) and the record high against the Department of Agriculture Government.
  
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ColinB
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #143 - Nov 11th, 2010 at 1:51pm
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Quoted from Greg's post
"I wouldn't hold your breath for any change to the current situation if you want to sell which is essentially one of two options for people with vivienda's:
1) Provide original building licence or prove the house was built before 1984"

In what way does it make a difference whether the house was built prior to 1984?  Do we know for certain the Habitatge WILL issue a cedula in that case?   Have any cedulas been issued recently in Tortosa area?  ........ the entire subject seems to have gone very quiet .
  
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ClipClop
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #144 - Nov 11th, 2010 at 2:29pm
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Yes there are cedula's being issued if you can prove the house was there before 1984. You can go to the catastral in Tarragona and get an aerial photo of the land before 1984 it will prove if there was.
After 1984 you need to have a building licence.
Think this is correct
worth a try eh!! Cheesy
  
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gyronut44
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #145 - Nov 11th, 2010 at 8:38pm
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its was nice not hearing about cedulas or property problems for a while there,the catalan rural property situation just doesnt make any sense anyway,better just living in town ,i think thats what they want everybody to do anyway!
  
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hazelnut
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #146 - Nov 12th, 2010 at 7:55am
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I've just realized which people are blocking the fair implementation of the Cedulah, its the Hunters, who don't want people living in the Campo spoiling their shooting fun, and Land owners erecting fences to cordon off land and keep them out!!

Chased 8 dogs of my land yesterday with me tractor and chucking rocks as they were Harassing me chickens, its the air rifle next time!!

I wouldn't mind if the Hunters owned the dogs but they have no control over the dogs as they just rent them for the day
and we always end up with a stray or two left behind for a week
  
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ColinB
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #147 - Nov 12th, 2010 at 7:48pm
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I have a .25 Gamo air rifle for sale...legal in Spain, nicely illegal in UK.  Sellable with or without a very serious telescopic site (Hawk)    PM me if really interested.
  
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appycab
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #148 - Nov 17th, 2010 at 10:19pm
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I feel really sorry for  you home owners in that area ; I have a finca in the countryside near Amposta and have been trying to sell it for 2 years and I have reduced it to less than 7000€ under the price that I paid for it 8 years ago . It was built with a licence in the 90's and being a finca , a mortgage can't be obtained by a prospective buyer . Fortunately I have a very nice house in France where prices are much lower than Spain and where we get no nasty surprises from new legislation .
   My son lives in Cyprus ; a EEC country , but they are flouting EEC laws .They are fined by the EEC but the fine is only a fraction of their contravention , so they continue to persecute immigrants in various ways .
   The further south ; the more corrupt.
and
  
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gyronut44
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Re: Cedula de Habitabilidad
Reply #149 - Nov 17th, 2010 at 10:30pm
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give it another few years and everybody will have gone back to where they came from and there will be a load of decaying buildings and scrubland left all over the countryside again,well i suppose that was how it was in catalunya before everybody arrived ,so i suppose the whole thing has gone full circle again, Undecided
a few unscrupulous lying thieving ba*****s have made a ton of money and all is back how it was !  Angry
  
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