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25 house build (Read 18693 times)
Nobrot
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Re: house build
Reply #15 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 7:14pm
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Maybe the rules are clearer and easily understood in the UK.
  
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hivi
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Re: house build
Reply #16 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 7:31pm
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could it have something to do with languageproblems?
  
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Nobrot
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Re: house build
Reply #17 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 7:36pm
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Well there are rules they obey and rules they sometimes obey,when it suits.There are rules that dont really exsist,unless it suits,then there are rules that keep changing,when it suits.Unless you know which ones are which I think most people would ask for forgiveness rather than permission.
  
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nen
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Re: house build
Reply #18 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 7:49pm
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SmileyQuote:
Well there are rules they obey and rules they sometimes obey,when it suits.There are rules that dont really exsist,unless it suits,then there are rules that keep changing,when it suits.Unless you know which ones are which I think most people would ask for forgiveness rather than permission.

like WHEN IN ROME DO AS THE ROMANS DO and when in spain do as the spanish do .well thats what thay tell you  Smiley
  
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Pondgirl
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Re: house build
Reply #19 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 10:09pm
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like WHEN IN ROME DO AS THE ROMANS DO and when in spain do as the spanish do .well thats what thay tell you  Smiley

Isn't that what you're supposed to do?
  
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El_Alto
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Dutch and Curious

Posts: 211
Location: Holland / Terra Alta
Joined: Jul 21st, 2006
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Re: house build
Reply #20 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 7:31am
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No, because as a foreigner you won't get away with things a local probably would. A friend of mine get himself on the Interpol list as environmental criminal just by rebuilding a little shed without the proper licence (he had a licence to reform, not to rebuild). Because he was a foreigner there was no 'official' address registration of him (of course his address was on the escritura but they won't bother to investigate) so they reported him by Interpol. So think twice before you do as the spanish do.

Good luck,
Mark
  
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Pondgirl
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Re: house build
Reply #21 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 9:56am
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That's shocking Mark.  Who reported him to Interpol?  The Spanish (it isn't just the catalans) really need to take a long, hard look at themselves and the corruption that they have allowed and still allow to permeate all levels of society.  We have had to pay out 'black money' twice with the absolute collusion of the court officials, our solicitor, the land agents and the people selling us property.  they treat law-breaking and tax avoidance/evasion as a competitive sport
  
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Smidge
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Re: house build
Reply #22 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 2:25pm
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"We have had to pay out 'black money' twice with the absolute collusion of the court officials, our solicitor, the land agents and the people selling us property"
Pondgirl, I am sure you used this only to illustrate the point and you did not actually pay this money as this would make you a party to a possible illegal act.  Smiley
  
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Nobrot
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Re: house build
Reply #23 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 4:27pm
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I would imagine that most people on this forum have paid black money to purchase a property with the full knowledge of the notary, who, let's not forget is a government employee and actually suggests what is deemed to be a reasonable black/white percentage and who usually at this stage has left the room.This surely means that the notary is party to fraud does it not.
  
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Smidge
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Re: house build
Reply #24 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 7:47pm
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Hi Nobrot, I would not like to speculate on the purchase details of people on the forum.
However your hypothetical point relating to the notary being party to fraud. I do not think so as in the following analogy. If you went to the shops with somebody you knew to be a habitual shoplifter, you said to them, if you are going to shoplift please tell me, When you got to the shop your friend informed you that he feels a bit of shoplifting coming on. You then left the shop on your own to the next door shop. Your friend then shoplifted. You could not be found to have been a party to the shoplifting.

  
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Pondgirl
Ex Member


Re: house build
Reply #25 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 8:38pm
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I think that the peoople who received the payments in cash in order not to pay tax would probably be in more trouble.  It isn't my responsibility what they do or don't do with money that I give them.
  
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Nobrot
Ex Member


Re: house build
Reply #26 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 8:54pm
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Quote:
Hi Nobrot, I would not like to speculate on the purchase details of people on the forum.
However your hypothetical point relating to the notary being party to fraud. I do not think so as in the following analogy. If you went to the shops with somebody you knew to be a habitual shoplifter, you said to them, if you are going to shoplift please tell me, When you got to the shop your friend informed you that he feels a bit of shoplifting coming on. You then left the shop on your own to the next door shop. Your friend then shoplifted. You could not be found to have been a party to the shoplifting.



There is nothing hypothetical about it,they know exactly what is going whilst being salaried by the government.Call it what you want.
  
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skibob
Ex Member


Re: house build
Reply #27 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 9:46pm
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Totally agree with you Ian.
l doubt anyone who has bought a house here  has not handed over  black money. l know we did, the Notary left the room while we handed the cash over.
lf anyone thinks differently they must have their head in the sand. Cataluña has the highest corruption % in Spain.
Sorry Smidge your analogy doesn't hold water. Sad
  
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Nobrot
Ex Member


Re: house build
Reply #28 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 10:09pm
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Just to fan the flames a bit, several years ago my dog allegedly forced an off duty policeman off his bike on a steep uphill gradient.To cut a rather long story short he rushed the case through as a criminal case,it should have a civil case whilst I was informed it was a preliminary hearing. 3 of his 4 points of evidence were lies,bearing in mind he was a custodian of the law.The judge walked out as I was reading my defence via an interepretor....I was guilty... €80.00 fine and €3,500 in damages (bearing in mind non wearing of a seat belt carries an €105 fine). I appealed and won,he tried sueing,go ahead and sue....he then tried to negotiate a deal.
I started the negotiations at €0.00,I heard nothing after that other than the judge had been struck off.I have heard nothing since.
Sorry to go off thread with this but I'd love to hear your analogy on this hypothetical case.
  
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Smidge
Ex Member


Re: house build
Reply #29 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 10:16pm
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Like I said I will not speculate on what people do or do not do when paying for a house here. You have your opinion and we are all entitled to our opinions. However opinion does not establish fraud. Legally to establish Fraud is very clear, a) there must be the intent, Mens Rea b) Actus Rea, the act. They must be both present. Even if the person knew/had  the intent but was not involved in the act or the other way around they have not committed fraud. The walking out of the room you describe. Legally that person has not committed fraud or is not party to the fraud even if they knew black money was changing hands since 100% they are at least not involved in one part ie. the act proven by the fact they were not there when the act took place. (assuming it was fraud.).  Smiley
  
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