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 25 Heavy handed authorities (Read 40907 times)
PlanesPete
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Heavy handed authorities
Nov 30th, 2008 at 7:19pm
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I have been advised, and so has a friend seperately, that all non agricultural use of buildings in the campo is now illegal. This is in el Perello and I don't know if it is being applied elsewhere.
It now seems to be impossible to get permission to construct anything, including garden walls, cisternas, fences etc unless they are absolutely necessary for agriculture. Living in the campo is not allowed, including presumably the many Spanish around us. This includes properties marked as residential whether a mas or not.
This is incredibly heavy handed. Has anyone else come up against this new attitude? We have been advised not to build or even apply for anything for the time being.
The reason suggested to me for this approach is that Spain took some €800M from the EU to 'provide every citizen with water and electricity'. Obviously they would rather use this money in 'other ways' than provide expensive services into the campo so they have just declared that living in the campo is illegal and therefore there is no need to supply services. Wonderful hyperbolic thinking!
  
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Antibarney
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #1 - Nov 30th, 2008 at 8:01pm
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PlanesPete
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #2 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 12:23am
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Yeh, but this isn't the same thing. Here, perfectly legal, liveable properties are now illegal to occupy.
  
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El_Alto
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #3 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 8:02am
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Hi Pete,

There are always a lot of hear-saying stories going around. Most of the time only about half true. If you want to know what you may legaly build on your land go to the ayunament, they can explain the rules for your situation.

Good luck,
Mark
  
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PlanesPete
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #4 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 9:11am
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The information has come directly from the adjuntament in my case and straight from the mayor to my friend! I don't know whether they are saying this with genuine authority or if its just empty threats to cut down the amount of illegal building. I'm hoping that it is a local embellishment of regional or national policy and not real national law. Either way, the local builders (Spanish and others) are getting very slim pickings.
  
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sue100
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #5 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 12:06pm
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El_Alto
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #6 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 2:01pm
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Hi Pete,

I can understand actions agains illegal building, but did the ayunament actually told you all the thousends of legal houses in the campo (with planning permission granted, taxes paid, registred as vivienda etc.) are suddenly declared illegal? I find that a bit hard to beleive...........

Mark
  
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PlanesPete
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #7 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 2:17pm
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That's absolutely, exactly what they said. Everyone of any nationality and in any kind of house with any kind of listing on the cadastro cannot live legally outside the urban areas. I know it seems amazing, nonsensical and impossible to apply but that's the line. It would be great if anyone with decent Catalan could follow this with their adjuntament or mayor and report back.
  
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jools
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #8 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 3:23pm
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Pete,
I know how worrying this must be, but going back on this forum to April 2006 look at the thread "ARE YOU BUILDING ILLEGALLY"

In Gandesa, the capital of Terra Alta, they had some official from Barcelona there 2 weeks ago, going over all the admin etc on buildings in the campo (this is from a reliable source in the Ajuntament)  but, thats all I'm saying,  because last time I mentioned anything along these lines I was accused of scare mongering.

Jools
  
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Nobrot the Great
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #9 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 7:57pm
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Are we taking about living ' full time ' or just for holidays and Spanish breaks.How do they define 'live' as apposed to 'staying'
  
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Pondgirl
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #10 - Dec 1st, 2008 at 8:24pm
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Of course I could be completely wrong but I would have thought that the authorities would find themselves in a very dodgy position if they tried to make all legally built residences in the campo illegal.  What would be the point?
  
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viking
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #11 - Dec 2nd, 2008 at 11:07am
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My understanding is that building matters have been centralized. The adjuntaments have lost their power to issue permission for any new builds/ reforms/ extensions etc. etc. In this area Tarragona have taken responsibility. The issue of services, ie. electricity/water is only one reason for this. There has been a huge amount of corruption within Spain as a whole, at a local level in relation to building and development and by overseeing matters more centrally it is obviously hoped that this will now cease.
Unfortunately many people, British amongst them, were caught up in this. They asked the adjuntament for permission to build or extend in the campo in in some cases permission was given and paperwork signed to that effect. Then the rules changed and Tarragona  or wherever stepped in, saying that the permissions given were invalid and the buildings must come down or revert to what they previously were. In some cases people have faced criminal charges, in others civil.
Don't even think about building anything in the campo unless you are absolutely sure that the correct permission has been given, verified by a good solicitor. If you are given permission for an 'almacen' then remember, that is what you have been given permission for, ie. an agricultural building to store farm equipment, not a dwelling.
We may not agree with these rules, but this is the situation and until such time as the rules change( by being challenged in court) we will have to accept them. This is just my personal impression of the situation.
  
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Jimbo
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #12 - Oct 15th, 2009 at 6:43pm
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Would like to bump this, as there has been no follow up info for a while now.
  
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Bigyin
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #13 - Oct 16th, 2009 at 2:39pm
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If it's of any interest, I applied for permission to build an Almacen about a month ago with my local Ajudement (Godall).  The architectural/technical guy came out to have a look at what I proposing.  He asked if it was necessary for it to be so close to the house (2m) and I said it was as I wanted to store logs and rotovator and stuff.  He said OK and filled in the form for me with his signature of approval on it.  I just need to fill in my own details and hand it in for signature by the mayor I think.
He specified that it must be 25sqm or less, built with concrete blocks and have a corrugated sheet roof.  Apparently anything over 25sqm becomes a "project" as opposed to "minor works".  So it looks like it may be the luck of the draw (a post code lottery so to speak).
On the question of existing rural dwellings being illegal, I'd imagine that would become a "human rights" issue but I wouldn't fancy having the expense of defending a case ?
For what it's worth,
Bigyin
  

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philmountains
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Re: Heavy handed authorities
Reply #14 - Oct 16th, 2009 at 6:12pm
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Hi do you think I need any permision for re-roofing my casita/roofless reck ?
Thanks Phil
  
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